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AoS What wacky new stuff could they add to seraphon?

pendrake said:
Maybe a stone Howdah...
:sorry:
I dunno. I am providing the concept, and leaving it to others to set the capability numbers and then assign a points cost.

:pompus: I am putting you in charge of this research.
Click to expand...

Let's get started then :p

pendrake said:
Ancient Bastilodon

This would be an officially sanctioned conversion from the standard Bastilodon kit.

  • It would be slower than the standard Basti (...because it is Old).
  • Its armor scales would be double-thick (way better Armor Save, Resistance to Rend, Negation of Mortal Wounds, and such-like). (...because the scales thicken with Age.)
  • It’s use would be to accompany Saurus Infantry.
  • In combat it will always turn tail, but instead of running, it starts smashing stuff with its humongous clubbed tail (...which is bigger now that it is Old).
  • Damage from the tail is comparable to clubs wielded by giants.
  • There is a howdah (needs to be scratch built) filled with Skink shooters. They can freely fire into the melee below. (Tall Howdah rule, we’ll call it.)
Click to expand...

Right then let's make something utterly ridiculous an ancient that doesn't even begin to care about the enemies opposing it cuz óf how massive and ancient it is.

Wounds: 15
Move: 7", slightly faster than a normal bastiladon. A normal bastiladon is already 5" slower simply won't work. It's slightly higher cuz of the following special rule:

Tectonic pace:: the ancient bastiladon is such an ancient creature it cares not for the pace of younger beings and will move as it pleases. It cannot run or charge. It's movement can not be modified in any way. Retreating counts as a normal move for it. Furthermore it can move through enemy units provided it ends 3" away from them. Whenever it does so it also does 1 attack with its bludgeoning tail as it simply waltzes through without a care in the world.

Save: 2+.
Ancient scales: a bastiladon's save cannot be modified by rend. Whenever it suffers a mortal wound roll a dice, on a 4+ it is ignored. At the start of you hero phase heal D3 wounds.

Elevated position: the skinks sitting on the howdah are in such an elevated position they are essentially sitting on a small mountain. Their ranged weapons can still be fired in melee.

Special equipment:
pick one of the following:
The AoE option:
Shrine of Sotek:
- Roll a dice for any enemy model in 5". If the model has 1 wounds or less it suffers a mortal wound on a 6+ as it's bitten by poisons snakes. If it has 2-4 wounds it suffers a mortal wound on a 5+ if it has 5+ wounds it suffers a mortal wound on a 4+
- All seraphon within 3" are blessed with the Venom of Sotek. Double the damage of their attacks on a wound rol of 6+

The single target option
Solar shrine:
- Blessing of the sun Nearby seraphon are invigurated by the sun. Add + 1 to all wound rolls for seraphon within 5"
- Greater Solar engine; ranged weapon

The defensive option:
Priests of the seraphon
- Several skink priests ride along on the howdah in addition to the normal crew. It can now cast the celestial rite and has the priestly trappings ability.
- Starbolts: ranged weapon

Now for the attacks:
Ranged:
- Greater Solar engine: 24" 3d6/4+/4+/-1/2 deals 3 damage to chaos daemons.
- Starbolts: 18" 4/3+/3+/-1/1
- Skink Javelins: 16" 8/4+/4+/-/1

Melee:
- Bludgeoning tail: 2" 3/4+/4+/-2/3. On a 6+ to hit it deals 3 mortal wounds in addition to any of it's regular damage.

Point cost: 400-500-ish seem fair? Classified as super-behemoth. Limited to 1 model in a 1000 point game, or 2 in 2000 and 2500 point games..

Seems like it should be fun and make for a nice centerpiece of your army :p







 
400 seems fair, as the old pts cost was 300 for Basties, but got knocked down a bit. So maybe 360-380?
 
IggyStarhost said:
15 wounds at 2+, immune to rend and 4+ against mortals.

You would need 30 mortal wounds or 90 normal wounds, or combination of both to kill it. Thats almost an army on its own. Maybe 12 wounds? Or points around 500-600
Click to expand...

Magma dragon is 500 and no where near that powerful. That's pushing Archaon levels...
 
Mmm, i could see that being an issue. Perhaps leaving the save at 3+, but the additional wounds would make it tankier than a regular Basti? A 2+ is nice and all, but already being immune to rend, and most likely getting to reroll saves, either by virtue ofthe priests on its back or on foot/slann lord in th shooting phase....might actually be more problematic than more health. When though on.

Also wanted to add, poked the AoS FB page ontheir post about magic, concerning the army... And thy said New Magic for us. I hope its legit, and not my heartstrings being plucked.
 
Carnikang said:
Also wanted to add, poked the AoS FB page ontheir post about magic, concerning the army... And thy said New Magic for us. I hope its legit, and not my heartstrings being plucked.
Click to expand...

Where did you see that ?

EDIT : I found it, in the response of a comment.
 
So I presented my thunder lizard to my LGS owner who has been playing since like the 80's, and we worked out a unit that he would allow in a casual play for testing and fun purposes.

Thunder lizard
8" (on table), 20W, 3+ save, 10 Brave

Ranged attacks:
Skink javelins: 12", 8 shots, 4+/5+ 1D

Melee attacks:
Tail whip: 3", make one attack for every enemy model in range, 4+/3+ 2D
Massive Stomp: 2", 2 attacks 2+/2+ damage on table

Abilities:
Ponderous Bulk: This unit cannot Run or Charge
Thick mass: This unit ignores damage inflicted by attacks with zero rend (this includes mortal wounds)
Graze feeder: during your hero phase you may have this unit stop and feed on the local flora. It heals 1d6 wounds, but may not move in the following movement phase. this may not be done if an enemy unit is within 3". if an enemy unit charges the thunder lizard before your next hero phase that unit gets +3" to its charge.

Heavy transport: this unit can carry up to (amount on table) wounds of Seraphon Battleline models. these models may start the game on the transport if it is not summoned. (they do not add to the drop count) . models may embark at the start of the movement phase and disembark at the end of the movement phase, but may not disembark in the same turn that they embarked. Disembarking units must be placed wholly within 3" of the Thunder Lizard. these units may disembark within 3" of an enemy ONLY if the thunder lizard is currently within 3" of enemy units. when the thunder lizard is slain roll a D6 for each model still in the transport, on a 1 that model is slain, (even if it has multiple wounds) as the thunder lizard falls over and crushes the hapless victim. in addition roll a D6 for every model (friend or foe) within 3" when the Thunder lizard is slain. on a 1 that model is slain.

if this unit is carrying at least 10W of skink battleline it makes 16 shots instead of 8 for the Skink javelins as the transported troops assist in defending the Majestic Beast.

Seraphon wizards know the summon thunder lizard spell, it has a casting value of 11.

Table:
wounds taken Move massive stomp transport limit
0-5 8" 4D6 30W
6-10 6" 3D6 25W
11-15 4" 2D6 15W
16+ 4" 2D3 10W

Tags: Order, Seraphon, Daemon, Celestial, Transport, Monster, Skink, Thunder lizard

420 points, Behemoth tag

what do you guys think of this toned down version?
 
Hmmm...

Immune to mortal wounds? That kind of attacks? And healing?
I think it is still too cheap actually.

And then some technical question:
How does it fight? If it cannot charge that means it can _never_ get into melee range (3") unless it is charged by an enemy. That means that if the enemy puts some models near (just outside 3") it can also never move. Is that intended?
 
It can still move, just not within 3" of the enemy. And it does have a shooting attack... Thqt being said, it should still be able to charge, though i think a negatie modifier for distance wouldnt be so out of place.
I like the Graze feeding rule. It gives it a sense of risk, if heavy infantry, elites, other behemoths are nearby.

The immunity to damage 1 seems...strong. may want to give it an extra save against damage 1 attacks, or just a straight FNP, ala Disgustingly resilient. Like, Titanic Hide: roll a d6 for each point of damage done to this model. On a 3+, that point of damage is ignored.
 
ILKAIN said:
So I presented my thunder lizard to my LGS owner who has been playing since like the 80's, and we worked out a unit that he would allow in a casual play for testing and fun purposes.

Thunder lizard
8" (on table), 20W, 3+ save, 10 Brave

Ranged attacks:
Skink javelins: 12", 8 shots, 4+/5+ 1D

Melee attacks:
Tail whip: 3", make one attack for every enemy model in range, 4+/3+ 2D
Massive Stomp: 2", 2 attacks 2+/2+ damage on table

Abilities:
Ponderous Bulk: This unit cannot Run or Charge
Thick mass: This unit ignores damage inflicted by attacks with zero rend (this includes mortal wounds)
Graze feeder: during your hero phase you may have this unit stop and feed on the local flora. It heals 1d6 wounds, but may not move in the following movement phase. this may not be done if an enemy unit is within 3". if an enemy unit charges the thunder lizard before your next hero phase that unit gets +3" to its charge.

Heavy transport: this unit can carry up to (amount on table) wounds of Seraphon Battleline models. these models may start the game on the transport if it is not summoned. (they do not add to the drop count) . models may embark at the start of the movement phase and disembark at the end of the movement phase, but may not disembark in the same turn that they embarked. Disembarking units must be placed wholly within 3" of the Thunder Lizard. these units may disembark within 3" of an enemy ONLY if the thunder lizard is currently within 3" of enemy units. when the thunder lizard is slain roll a D6 for each model still in the transport, on a 1 that model is slain, (even if it has multiple wounds) as the thunder lizard falls over and crushes the hapless victim. in addition roll a D6 for every model (friend or foe) within 3" when the Thunder lizard is slain. on a 1 that model is slain.

if this unit is carrying at least 10W of skink battleline it makes 16 shots instead of 8 for the Skink javelins as the transported troops assist in defending the Majestic Beast.

Seraphon wizards know the summon thunder lizard spell, it has a casting value of 11.

Table:
wounds taken Move massive stomp transport limit
0-5 8" 4D6 30W
6-10 6" 3D6 25W
11-15 4" 2D6 15W
16+ 4" 2D3 10W

Tags: Order, Seraphon, Daemon, Celestial, Transport, Monster, Skink, Thunder lizard

420 points, Behemoth tag

what do you guys think of this toned down version?
Click to expand...

Hmm, it looks good, but i think you are missing some key components about thunder Lizards.

First of, they're supposed too be massive, like the Slaan need to mind control them so they don't trample entire cities. It would fit better if it had a wound characteristic of 45-50. I do like that it has a certain immunity to minor attacks. The idea of a monster transport sounds cool, could work nicely.

Also ranged attacks, they have the ability too shoot thunder too kill prey, hence their name. So maybe a shooting attack that had the following stat: range 72, 2d6 attacks, 4/3 -3 2D.

Not being able too attack unless attacked is a little weird, and not something that i really like, but could be fascinating.
 
IggyStarhost said:
15 wounds at 2+, immune to rend and 4+ against mortals.

You would need 30 mortal wounds or 90 normal wounds, or combination of both to kill it. Thats almost an army on its own. Maybe 12 wounds? Or points around 500-600
Click to expand...
The save was intendd to be a 3+, made a typo. But the essence remains the same. It'sa big bad nearly impossible to kill thing. The best way of dealing with it is by avoiding it, playing the objective and murdering everything around it. Hence also the limitation to the amount you can field and the relative high point cost. It is supposed to easily be half an army on its own.

Carnikang said:
Mmm, i could see that being an issue. Perhaps leaving the save at 3+, but the additional wounds would make it tankier than a regular Basti? A 2+ is nice and all, but already being immune to rend, and most likely getting to reroll saves, either by virtue ofthe priests on its back or on foot/slann lord in th shooting phase....might actually be more problematic than more health. When though on.

Also wanted to add, poked the AoS FB page ontheir post about magic, concerning the army... And thy said New Magic for us. I hope its legit, and not my heartstrings being plucked.
Click to expand...
o that's cool :P

ILKAIN said:
So I presented my thunder lizard to my LGS owner who has been playing since like the 80's, and we worked out a unit that he would allow in a casual play for testing and fun purposes.

Thunder lizard
8" (on table), 20W, 3+ save, 10 Brave

Ranged attacks:
Skink javelins: 12", 8 shots, 4+/5+ 1D

Melee attacks:
Tail whip: 3", make one attack for every enemy model in range, 4+/3+ 2D
Massive Stomp: 2", 2 attacks 2+/2+ damage on table

Abilities:
Ponderous Bulk: This unit cannot Run or Charge
Thick mass: This unit ignores damage inflicted by attacks with zero rend (this includes mortal wounds)
Graze feeder: during your hero phase you may have this unit stop and feed on the local flora. It heals 1d6 wounds, but may not move in the following movement phase. this may not be done if an enemy unit is within 3". if an enemy unit charges the thunder lizard before your next hero phase that unit gets +3" to its charge.

Heavy transport: this unit can carry up to (amount on table) wounds of Seraphon Battleline models. these models may start the game on the transport if it is not summoned. (they do not add to the drop count) . models may embark at the start of the movement phase and disembark at the end of the movement phase, but may not disembark in the same turn that they embarked. Disembarking units must be placed wholly within 3" of the Thunder Lizard. these units may disembark within 3" of an enemy ONLY if the thunder lizard is currently within 3" of enemy units. when the thunder lizard is slain roll a D6 for each model still in the transport, on a 1 that model is slain, (even if it has multiple wounds) as the thunder lizard falls over and crushes the hapless victim. in addition roll a D6 for every model (friend or foe) within 3" when the Thunder lizard is slain. on a 1 that model is slain.

if this unit is carrying at least 10W of skink battleline it makes 16 shots instead of 8 for the Skink javelins as the transported troops assist in defending the Majestic Beast.

Seraphon wizards know the summon thunder lizard spell, it has a casting value of 11.

Table:
wounds taken Move massive stomp transport limit
0-5 8" 4D6 30W
6-10 6" 3D6 25W
11-15 4" 2D6 15W
16+ 4" 2D3 10W

Tags: Order, Seraphon, Daemon, Celestial, Transport, Monster, Skink, Thunder lizard

420 points, Behemoth tag

what do you guys think of this toned down version?
Click to expand...
The healing mechanic is neat, though might be a tad unusable as it's very easy to have enemies nearby, It doen't seem like you'd retreat it out of combat so it doesn't really get the option to heal back up unless you use it to transport troops to 1 side of the board, eat while the troops do an objective, then run back or something along those lines.

Nearby models slain when it dies might be a tad OP. the thing can now potentially slay say Nagash or a stardrake, simply by dying and faceplanting on him. Probably better to have it deal X damage, or only be able to slay stuff with les than Y wounds (say anything with 4+ wounds is too big to be crushed by it and only suffers 3 damage instead).

Otherwise neat.

Also what happens if it gets wounded while transporting stuff and it's limit drops too far?

Also thelimit to battleline means it can't carry say a slann or a skink priest, but it can carry a saurus knight. This is weird. You should probably rephrase it, perhaps just explicitly state what units it can and can't carry.

Aginor said:
Hmmm...

Immune to mortal wounds? That kind of attacks? And healing?
I think it is still too cheap actually.

And then some technical question:
How does it fight? If it cannot charge that means it can _never_ get into melee range (3") unless it is charged by an enemy. That means that if the enemy puts some models near (just outside 3") it can also never move. Is that intended?
Click to expand...
Doesn't "in combat" count as being exactly 3" away? And isn't that thus reachable by basic movement? If it can't then my bastiladon has to be changed to be able to walk within 2" of enemies..
 
Basic movement prevents from ending a move within 3"
You are in melee if you are within 3".

So no, you cannot move into melee during the movement phase.

Edit:
A solution could be to allow it to charge, but only use one dice. That rule already exists for... something.
 
Joshua Horchler said:
I wish Seraphon would get some love.

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2018/05/12/tons-of-new-info-from-warhammer-fest/

So much new news but nothing for the lizard.
Click to expand...

I have heard a rumor that there is a Seraphon release scheduled for late 2019.
Joshua Horchler said:
I am allowed to be a little annoyed Stormcast are getting more models? I understand they are the poster child and main storyline faction but....... I wish they would spread the love a little.
Click to expand...

I've warmed up too the stormcast a lot since they first were introduced, but what i still can't stand is that the entire setting is so freaking stormcast centric. They have had 3, soon too be 4, major releases already, i would like too see some of the other factions get a little something, besides a small story twice a week.
 
Why hasn’t somebody created some Lizardcast conversions?

Replace the 1930’s robot heads the SCE are shipped with and give them lizardheads and some oversized Aztec weapons!

SlannCast Eternals FTW !!
 
Aginor said:
Basic movement prevents from ending a move within 3"
You are in melee if you are within 3".

So no, you cannot move into melee during the movement phase.

Edit:
A solution could be to allow it to charge, but only use one dice. That rule already exists for... something.
Click to expand...
meh, then either a 1-dice charge, a fixed charge of 4" or it can move within 2" pick whichever you want :p

Captaniser said:
I have heard a rumor that there is a Seraphon release scheduled for late 2019.
Click to expand...
that's so far away :(

Captaniser said:
I've warmed up too the stormcast a lot since they first were introduced, but what i still can't stand is that the entire setting is so freaking stormcast centric. They have had 3, soon too be 4, major releases already, i would like too see some of the other factions get a little something, besides a small story twice a week.
Click to expand...
To be honest tey aren't awefull.. they're just freaking everywhere and get all the stuff. If they toned it down a tad it'd be fine.
 
Captaniser said:
I have heard a rumor that there is a Seraphon release scheduled for late 2019.
Click to expand...

I hope it is true, but sooner :D

Captaniser said:
I've warmed up too the stormcast a lot since they first were introduced, but what i still can't stand is that the entire setting is so freaking stormcast centric. They have had 3, soon too be 4, major releases already, i would like too see some of the other factions get a little something, besides a small story twice a week.
Click to expand...

Totally agree here !
 
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