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8th Ed. What to buy when getting started?
- Thread starter glacius
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Chameleon Skink
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Depends on what points level you plan to play at. I pulled the below from a response I gave a while ago and it still probably works.
For a base army:
30 to 70 skinks, including converting some skinks to chameleon skinks with blowpipes (10 to 20) and then keep it simple and set up with javelins and shields for non-chameleon skinks [note: I think that the math favors javelins and shields over blowpipes due to superior armour save reducing the rate at which they die to normal shooting and magic hits and due to javelins being quick to fire which means there is no penalty for moving and shooting and you have the ability to stand and shoot when charged at short range; with blowpipes the movement penalty and multishot penalty combine with long range means single shot a lot of the time anyway with fewer hits than javs and having to single shot against skirmishers at range a lot often means no poison shots; javs allow you to get up close enough to block something and to screen your other units from BS shooting and charges and yet still stand and shoot when charged]
20 to 40 saurus (Note: there is a debate over handweapon shield v spear and shield options, HW+shield gives a parry save to the front which means a bit fewer die in combat but spears give an extra rank of attacks which means saurus will wound more enemies in combat)
20 to 40 temple guard
2 to 4 salamanders with 3-4 skink handlers per salamander
1 slaan
1-2 skink chiefs
1-2 oldblood (keep modular for handweapon shield or great weapon no shield options)
1-2 scar vets (possibly one on cold one with great weapon)
6-10 cold one riders (Note: Since a scar vet or two on a cold one, called a cowboy when charge out solo or run solo, is a popular model, consider converting one or two models into scar vets with great weapons; the +2 As of cold ones really benefits scar vets a lot and gives then the ability to have a 1+ AS without a shield and with a great weapon, since their I is only 3 they often strike after most models without a great weapon so you might as well get the great weapon strength to cut through armour and high T models and do some damage)
3-6 Krox (Note: run either as special unit or 1-3 Korx with skinks in core cohort formation, less common unless you have Tetto in your army list, to counter chaff and hit something harder; Krox can be hit or miss for the points cost but the M6 and strength 7 really helps a lot and hitting something with a high AS or high T in the flank with Krox is quite effective)
If you play at 1500, you probably need the lower end of the range in this wish list and at 2500 points you need to look at the upper end of the range in this wish list. While I believe in supporting my FLGS (Friendly local gaming store, not GW) as long as reasonable in price (most or our stores now sell at 20% to 3even 25% discounts off GW list price), I also believe strongly in helping buying used models off Ebay or other sites to make the game cheaper effectively for everyone. Consider onverting cheaper models and proxy models to suit tasks as long as the look does not suffer too much. (The story is a bit different for those that play in tourneys where the look of the model, painting, and conversions matter.)
Maybe:
1-2 stegadons (build as ancient steg but keep howdah on top flexible to play as reg steg or EOTG as you desire)
1 bastiladon
3-6 ripperdactyls/terradons
for fun consider a carnosaur model with option as scar vet or oldblood on top (I prefer scar vet due to using slaan in lord slot with high magic to recover wounds on carnosaur if possbile)
1 convertion of a palanquin for skink priest (40mm by 40 mm square) for possilbe use of Tetto special character in fun games and where special characters are allowed
For a base army:
30 to 70 skinks, including converting some skinks to chameleon skinks with blowpipes (10 to 20) and then keep it simple and set up with javelins and shields for non-chameleon skinks [note: I think that the math favors javelins and shields over blowpipes due to superior armour save reducing the rate at which they die to normal shooting and magic hits and due to javelins being quick to fire which means there is no penalty for moving and shooting and you have the ability to stand and shoot when charged at short range; with blowpipes the movement penalty and multishot penalty combine with long range means single shot a lot of the time anyway with fewer hits than javs and having to single shot against skirmishers at range a lot often means no poison shots; javs allow you to get up close enough to block something and to screen your other units from BS shooting and charges and yet still stand and shoot when charged]
20 to 40 saurus (Note: there is a debate over handweapon shield v spear and shield options, HW+shield gives a parry save to the front which means a bit fewer die in combat but spears give an extra rank of attacks which means saurus will wound more enemies in combat)
20 to 40 temple guard
2 to 4 salamanders with 3-4 skink handlers per salamander
1 slaan
1-2 skink chiefs
1-2 oldblood (keep modular for handweapon shield or great weapon no shield options)
1-2 scar vets (possibly one on cold one with great weapon)
6-10 cold one riders (Note: Since a scar vet or two on a cold one, called a cowboy when charge out solo or run solo, is a popular model, consider converting one or two models into scar vets with great weapons; the +2 As of cold ones really benefits scar vets a lot and gives then the ability to have a 1+ AS without a shield and with a great weapon, since their I is only 3 they often strike after most models without a great weapon so you might as well get the great weapon strength to cut through armour and high T models and do some damage)
3-6 Krox (Note: run either as special unit or 1-3 Korx with skinks in core cohort formation, less common unless you have Tetto in your army list, to counter chaff and hit something harder; Krox can be hit or miss for the points cost but the M6 and strength 7 really helps a lot and hitting something with a high AS or high T in the flank with Krox is quite effective)
If you play at 1500, you probably need the lower end of the range in this wish list and at 2500 points you need to look at the upper end of the range in this wish list. While I believe in supporting my FLGS (Friendly local gaming store, not GW) as long as reasonable in price (most or our stores now sell at 20% to 3even 25% discounts off GW list price), I also believe strongly in helping buying used models off Ebay or other sites to make the game cheaper effectively for everyone. Consider onverting cheaper models and proxy models to suit tasks as long as the look does not suffer too much. (The story is a bit different for those that play in tourneys where the look of the model, painting, and conversions matter.)
Maybe:
1-2 stegadons (build as ancient steg but keep howdah on top flexible to play as reg steg or EOTG as you desire)
1 bastiladon
3-6 ripperdactyls/terradons
for fun consider a carnosaur model with option as scar vet or oldblood on top (I prefer scar vet due to using slaan in lord slot with high magic to recover wounds on carnosaur if possbile)
1 convertion of a palanquin for skink priest (40mm by 40 mm square) for possilbe use of Tetto special character in fun games and where special characters are allowed
I think a good way to start a solid army is to get the battalion and maybe another box of saurus or skinks and buy a skink priest so you get used to the magic phase. I also suggest you buy a Saurus oldblood model because he is probably the most survivable lord/hero for the points cost.glacius said:
Ripperdactyl
kroxigor01
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Bad advice everywhere here!
Now onto my actual suggestions:
I would avoid the Battalion. The Saurus Cav are dead money and the Temple Guard are rediculously expensive and IMO are better for a conversion project down the line (easy to turn Saurus Warrior Spear arms into halberds and if you pool all your trinkets from the Warrior sprues they can look elite).
I think the only definites are:
2 boxes of 24 Skinks
2 boxes of 16 Saurus
1 box of 3 Terradons
1 Stegadon (don't glue the giant bow, blow pipes, engine or any models to the top)
1 Slann
Buy that, have some fun with some little games. Proxy Skinks as Chameleons and Saurus and Temple Guard. Finish painting and modelling all but 15 skinks and maybe a few Saurus (maybe you want to convert them to Chameleons or Temple Guard). Then try to write a 2000 point list. Think about it a bit more, then buy what you need to make the 2000 point list.
I would not recommend locking yourself in to the blowpipe or javelin camp. In my opinion blowpipes are the obviously best choice, according to others javelins are the obvious best choice. Glue the skinks to their bases and don't attach arms until you play some games and familiarize yourself with the trade offs.
I would wait for the FAQ before modelling Saurus with Spears. If Predatory Fighter doesn't work on supporting attacks (as RAW would imply) they aren't worth it imo. Spear versus hand weapons is also a unit size preference decision as any time your unit has less than 11 models remaining you will wish you took the hand weapons.
Perhaps, but mounted on Terradons? Stegadons? Or forsake the chiefs for priests? No decision for a new player.
Totally disagree. I think an Oldblood is far from an auto-choice.
Also controversial units.
I however would say 1 Steg and 3 Terradons are definite inclusions not maybes.
Combat characters look cool but they have very specific uses in the actual wargame. Would not recommend if trying to be frugal with your model budget.
Now onto my actual suggestions:
I would avoid the Battalion. The Saurus Cav are dead money and the Temple Guard are rediculously expensive and IMO are better for a conversion project down the line (easy to turn Saurus Warrior Spear arms into halberds and if you pool all your trinkets from the Warrior sprues they can look elite).
I think the only definites are:
2 boxes of 24 Skinks
2 boxes of 16 Saurus
1 box of 3 Terradons
1 Stegadon (don't glue the giant bow, blow pipes, engine or any models to the top)
1 Slann
Buy that, have some fun with some little games. Proxy Skinks as Chameleons and Saurus and Temple Guard. Finish painting and modelling all but 15 skinks and maybe a few Saurus (maybe you want to convert them to Chameleons or Temple Guard). Then try to write a 2000 point list. Think about it a bit more, then buy what you need to make the 2000 point list.
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Sleboda
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I think the above post is accurate in many ways, but I would say that maybe the auto-inclusion of a Slann is off a bit. I'm leaning to play without one and, even though I miss out on High Magic, I'm not really worried about missing his massive froggieness.
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kroxigor01
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For me it is compulsory. Anything less than Lv4 is too little magic defense. But I will accept that it is possible people disagree.Sleboda said:
Maybe double Lv 2, one with Dispel Scroll the other with Cube of Darkness could do ok? But then you are almost at the cost of a Slann anyway.
Hmm, nah you are right, Priests with Wildform can definitely perform acceptably in lieu of a Slann.
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Pinktaco
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kroxigor01 said:
Most people trick out their slann with something. A slann with dispel scroll, High magic and soul of stone 380pts. 2 lvl 2 with scroll/cube is 255. The slann is not even expensive compared to what I've seen. If you go the channel staff + channel discipline you need a priest for scroll and can add another 90pts.
2 priests ARE cheaper, but it obviously depends on how you trick out the frog.
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Zee Deveel
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Slann
2 Boxes of Temple Guard
2 Boxes of Skinks
2 Boxes of Sauruses
1 Salamander
I reckon that'll give you a solid start. Convert 5-10 of the Skinks to Chameleon Skinks.
Then I'd pick one option from special and one option from rare below depending on what you like and what you think will fit your preferred strategies:
Specials
2 x Terradons or Rippers
1 x Stegadon or Bastiladon
1 x Cold One Riders
Rare
1 x Ancient Steadon
2 x Salamanders
Win.
2 Boxes of Temple Guard
2 Boxes of Skinks
2 Boxes of Sauruses
1 Salamander
I reckon that'll give you a solid start. Convert 5-10 of the Skinks to Chameleon Skinks.
Then I'd pick one option from special and one option from rare below depending on what you like and what you think will fit your preferred strategies:
Specials
2 x Terradons or Rippers
1 x Stegadon or Bastiladon
1 x Cold One Riders
Rare
1 x Ancient Steadon
2 x Salamanders
Win.
Terradon
VampTeddy
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A lot of assumptions are made as to what you need, and how many points you play at.
May i ask where you wat to start? since a lot of different answers are applicable depending on your startings points and what you reckon you want to do with your army.
Right now people are just summing up their own favourite units, we could all do this for a very long time but really most things CAN work, and thus it is really up to you to tell us what you want to be your general strategy before we can help you a lot.
May i ask where you wat to start? since a lot of different answers are applicable depending on your startings points and what you reckon you want to do with your army.
Right now people are just summing up their own favourite units, we could all do this for a very long time but really most things CAN work, and thus it is really up to you to tell us what you want to be your general strategy before we can help you a lot.
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Putzfrau
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Sleboda said:
I agree with sleboda. altho I love the fat frog, but to each their own!
my lizardmen army purchases went something like this.
2 skink boxes
2 saurus boxes
1 box saurus cav (old metal models, came in a set of 5 just liked the look really)
1 old blood on foot.
1 skink box
1 stegadon
1 slann
1 carno
1 terradon box
everything else
looking back i'd do something like 2 boxes of saurus, 3 boxes of skinks, terradon and steg.
that's a fantastic base to build off of. i'd suggest salamanders but ew finecast... and metal is even worse so /shrug. the new terradon and carno boxes are AWEEESOME, even if the terradons are a bit of a pain to put together. the stegadon box is also fantastic, at least IMO.
after that i'd figure out what you wanna do for your lords/heroes choices and grab those. personally i'd go slann/scar vet on carno because the carno model is amazing and slann are hilarious (even if it is finecast ...) different options would be scar vets on cold ones, on foot, skink priests, old blood on carno, blah blah blah. this really comes down to personal preference IMO.
unless you wanna magnetize every single arm in your army, i'd just pick an option and go with it. hw or spears on the saurus, javs on the skinks. personally 3/4 of my skinks are javs and 50% of my saurus are hw, but i'm in the process of swapping them all over to hw.
i am a 1 army kind of guy, so i always thought of it as it'll just give me more stuff i can buy for my army. keep the 30ish saurus with hand weapons and if spears become better in the future or i wanna do something different i get to paint and build 2 more boxes which i always enjoy.
Chameleon Skink
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My list above was a wishlist. I tend to buy what i need to play an army up to 2500 points and with variations in army list, which means I often own about 3500 point or more to start with.
Krox 's comments about converting saurus warriors to temple guard is toltally fair. We got them used on sprues or assembled but not painted off E-bay a long time ago. Also, while the dedicated character models are nice, my post about what to get should have mentioned the possibility of putting together a scar vet or oldblood out of a basic model.
I strongly disagree on the cold ones only in that one gets them in some battalian boxes and my son is running a cowboy model or two and occasionally likes to try out cold one riders in his lists but frankly almost never plays cold one riders in his tournament list.
I strongly disagree on not having at least one oldblood in the army and not having a slann. Yestrday, I watched a battle between my son and a top WHFB player (once was top ranked on Rankings.com in US). My son He ran a scar vet on cold one with great weapon in his TG unit with an oldblood and slann (soul of stone, loremaster high magic and dispell scroll + BSB) against a 50 model white lion horde based army (with the lvl 4 book of hoeth high magic caster, annointed lord for the 6+ ward save witih re-rollable 2+ AS in with the white lions, banner of world dragon or BOTWD) with 4 bolt throwers, 2 eagles and all archer core in 15 man units. The bolt throwers and archers tore apart his little skink chaff/redirector units but his chameleons killed one bolt thrower and put a wound on one and forced him to dedicate a lot of shooting to that unit to avoid it killing all his bolt throwers. If he does not have lore master of high magic and soul of stone on the slann (and the slann on the flank of the TG unit) he loses. Instead, he takes out the BOTWD on the white lions and then hits the white lions with a fiery convocation (after two attempts, they still had a 5+ ward save) and swaps that spellsand soul quench and another spell he cast into earthblood and miasma and dwellers in anticipation of combat. The white lion unit destroys and catches his saurus core unit with spears (predatory fighter pursuit put it in an exposed position because he lost his skink priest to restrain) but loses more models in the process. By cutting the white lion unit down and forcing the hgh elf player to dispell fiery convocation, he gains an advantage on magic when the white lions charge the TG unit. The oldblood and scar vet hold up and do a lot of damage to the annointed lord and BSB, respectively, and the TG get cut up but an earthblood and miasma get off after the lvl 4 is killed by focusing attacks on it (the high elf player stopped hand of glory but that left miasma and earthblood to get through) and miasma flips the WS advantrage to the TG and oldblood and scar vet and earthblood gives enough of a save to the TG to allow then enough models to hit back. The result is he kills the BSB and the remaining white lions in a couple of additional rounds of combat and the lord is left with one wound and caught fleeing. The oldblood died in the last round of combat due to bad luck on save rolls, but only after tying down and taking all the lord's attacks. and protecting the scar vet cowboy and slann from being challenged. If he does not have the oldblood and scar vet on cold one, he does not have enough punch in the front rank to win and to cut through the armour save of the BSB and the lord.
At the conclusion of the game, we got together and discussed the outcome. I had seen that same High Elf army tear apart my Dark Elf army because I did not have enough dispel ability and could not deal with BOTWD other than by miasma followed by pit of shades getting off (sac dagger was costly but useful). We realized that my son loses if his TG unit is not stubborn because the white lions did so much damage in the first round of combat. He got lucky and rolled into dwelllers early (in case arcane unforging did not get off to take the BOTWD off the white lions) but never got to use it. We also realized that the slann and TG combo with the cowboy (shooting TG with BS shots can't pick off the Cowboy) and oldblood was essential in that battle. A slann with a scroll and skink priest with a cube were able to get some magic spells get through and to dispel enough of the magic spells that the High Elf needs to get the ward save up on the white iions and to get off spells needed to deal with the LM army. Two skink priests with cube and scroll could not have stopped the High Elf mage after the first turn and would not have gotten enough spells off to win. (High Elves get +1 to cast High Magic and the Book of Hoeth lets the lvl 4 re-roll one dice in every casting and dispel attempt which is worth apporx 1.5 to casting and dispel attempts on average).
Similarly, the reason I listed a steg as optional is we saw how a steg and terradons play out recently. We found that the steg and other stuff were just too vulnerable to be effective for the points invested in a lot of settings. Non-BS shooting, especially by cannons, some magic, and even enough BS shooting really hurt. At least with skink chaff units, if they are shooting at and using magic on them (poison shooting, the chaff/redirector role and screening role are annoying enough to attraction excess focus on them) it is taking the heat off the saurus and TG and the cowboy long enough for them to get into combat more or less intact and they are cheap enough to be expendable.
Krox 's comments about converting saurus warriors to temple guard is toltally fair. We got them used on sprues or assembled but not painted off E-bay a long time ago. Also, while the dedicated character models are nice, my post about what to get should have mentioned the possibility of putting together a scar vet or oldblood out of a basic model.
I strongly disagree on the cold ones only in that one gets them in some battalian boxes and my son is running a cowboy model or two and occasionally likes to try out cold one riders in his lists but frankly almost never plays cold one riders in his tournament list.
I strongly disagree on not having at least one oldblood in the army and not having a slann. Yestrday, I watched a battle between my son and a top WHFB player (once was top ranked on Rankings.com in US). My son He ran a scar vet on cold one with great weapon in his TG unit with an oldblood and slann (soul of stone, loremaster high magic and dispell scroll + BSB) against a 50 model white lion horde based army (with the lvl 4 book of hoeth high magic caster, annointed lord for the 6+ ward save witih re-rollable 2+ AS in with the white lions, banner of world dragon or BOTWD) with 4 bolt throwers, 2 eagles and all archer core in 15 man units. The bolt throwers and archers tore apart his little skink chaff/redirector units but his chameleons killed one bolt thrower and put a wound on one and forced him to dedicate a lot of shooting to that unit to avoid it killing all his bolt throwers. If he does not have lore master of high magic and soul of stone on the slann (and the slann on the flank of the TG unit) he loses. Instead, he takes out the BOTWD on the white lions and then hits the white lions with a fiery convocation (after two attempts, they still had a 5+ ward save) and swaps that spellsand soul quench and another spell he cast into earthblood and miasma and dwellers in anticipation of combat. The white lion unit destroys and catches his saurus core unit with spears (predatory fighter pursuit put it in an exposed position because he lost his skink priest to restrain) but loses more models in the process. By cutting the white lion unit down and forcing the hgh elf player to dispell fiery convocation, he gains an advantage on magic when the white lions charge the TG unit. The oldblood and scar vet hold up and do a lot of damage to the annointed lord and BSB, respectively, and the TG get cut up but an earthblood and miasma get off after the lvl 4 is killed by focusing attacks on it (the high elf player stopped hand of glory but that left miasma and earthblood to get through) and miasma flips the WS advantrage to the TG and oldblood and scar vet and earthblood gives enough of a save to the TG to allow then enough models to hit back. The result is he kills the BSB and the remaining white lions in a couple of additional rounds of combat and the lord is left with one wound and caught fleeing. The oldblood died in the last round of combat due to bad luck on save rolls, but only after tying down and taking all the lord's attacks. and protecting the scar vet cowboy and slann from being challenged. If he does not have the oldblood and scar vet on cold one, he does not have enough punch in the front rank to win and to cut through the armour save of the BSB and the lord.
At the conclusion of the game, we got together and discussed the outcome. I had seen that same High Elf army tear apart my Dark Elf army because I did not have enough dispel ability and could not deal with BOTWD other than by miasma followed by pit of shades getting off (sac dagger was costly but useful). We realized that my son loses if his TG unit is not stubborn because the white lions did so much damage in the first round of combat. He got lucky and rolled into dwelllers early (in case arcane unforging did not get off to take the BOTWD off the white lions) but never got to use it. We also realized that the slann and TG combo with the cowboy (shooting TG with BS shots can't pick off the Cowboy) and oldblood was essential in that battle. A slann with a scroll and skink priest with a cube were able to get some magic spells get through and to dispel enough of the magic spells that the High Elf needs to get the ward save up on the white iions and to get off spells needed to deal with the LM army. Two skink priests with cube and scroll could not have stopped the High Elf mage after the first turn and would not have gotten enough spells off to win. (High Elves get +1 to cast High Magic and the Book of Hoeth lets the lvl 4 re-roll one dice in every casting and dispel attempt which is worth apporx 1.5 to casting and dispel attempts on average).
Similarly, the reason I listed a steg as optional is we saw how a steg and terradons play out recently. We found that the steg and other stuff were just too vulnerable to be effective for the points invested in a lot of settings. Non-BS shooting, especially by cannons, some magic, and even enough BS shooting really hurt. At least with skink chaff units, if they are shooting at and using magic on them (poison shooting, the chaff/redirector role and screening role are annoying enough to attraction excess focus on them) it is taking the heat off the saurus and TG and the cowboy long enough for them to get into combat more or less intact and they are cheap enough to be expendable.
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Putzfrau
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dunno if its just me, but it would help if you split your posts into smaller paragraphs. its quite difficult to read large walls of texts with the way this forum is designed/colored.
also it sounds like your son got some fantastic luck with his swaps. swapping into dwellers early is a dream come true, especially if you don't blow up your own unit with it (which is bound to happen eventually).
either way sounds like an exciting game, wish I could have seen it!
also it sounds like your son got some fantastic luck with his swaps. swapping into dwellers early is a dream come true, especially if you don't blow up your own unit with it (which is bound to happen eventually).
either way sounds like an exciting game, wish I could have seen it!
Chameleon Skink
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Good point, I tend to be long-winded when posting because I think too much and am trying to be complete.
It was a close game until the lvl 4 died and the magic balance tipped to the slann. With 8 spells and no lvl 4 left to dispel, the slann turned it into a rout in 2 rounds of combat. We concluded that the set up my son ran has 50-50 or better odds against an optimal High Elf build like that because the salamanders and chameleons plus chaff absorb and must absorb a lot of shooting or else they kill off the rbts and archers and sallies still can potentially due a lot of damage to the white lion horde. 50 white lions with BOTWD and Annoineted and Lvl 4 with BOH is pretty formidable with the 4 bolts, 2 eagles, and 4 units of 15 archers (3 ranks by 5, HE get to fire and fight with an extra rank now) each clearing out the chaff and redirecting as well. The white lions have 3+ AS to skink poison shooting plus average of a 5+ ward save (with High Magic lore attirbute) most of the time on that unit; makes it tough to do much. You try to set up roadblocks but he cuts through them in combat so that the chaff units have no models left after combat to break and flee and he then just gets to reform or overrun with that unit plus his eagles are clearing out and blocking out stuff until the posion shooting skinks hopefully take them out. It takes a lot of positioning to try to get the charge or a flank on the white lions with saurus and TG blocks having a two to one unit advantage and using skink units to bait and flee to slow the white lions down and turn their flank. The white lion horde needs to keep a full four ranks intact to max out combat if potentially facing both the TG and saurus units at the same time or else the two units (saurus and TG) will survive enough to hit back and wear down the white lion unit, especially with hexes and augments from the slann. The High Elf army with one large white lion block needs to try to divide and conquer and a white lion unit struggles if it is much smaller with the special points divided between two infantry blocks or an infantry block and a cav block like dragon princes.
It is hard to describe the actual battle without going real long. Both players have won multiple best general or best overall awards in GTs in the past few years and have really mastered positioning and movement and redirection tactics, especially when playing each other. If the skink priest was not killed earlier on (suicide charge by an eagle after the skink priest already had a wound), then my son could have restrained the saurus unit from pursuing a unit of archers that charged them. The archers were deliberately sacrificed (plus got in some licks with 15 ASF attacks with re-rolls to hit and hitting on 3's) to force the saurus unit to pursue them. The saurus unit in pursuit got exposed to being charged and decimated by the white lions. If the saurus don't pursue the fleeing archers and get to reform, they are far enough away to set up the white lion unit for a bait and flee, if charged, with the white lion unit either exposing its flank to the TG or the white lion unit eventually having to expose its flank to the saurus unit to go after the TG. Instead, the saurus unit ended up in front of the white lions and close enough that they died in droves to the white lions and fled and that just put the white lions right in front of the TG to charge the TG. The key was using two dispel items early on to stop stuff teh HE army needed to do and keep the ward save limited on the white lions, getting through an arcane unforging to take out BOTWD and then fiery convocation (cast with six dice IF but soul of stone rolled the miscast up to an 8) and killing the lvl 4 in the White Lion unit. If the HE player does not have the lvl 4 High Magic mage in the white lion unit (on a corner to stay out of combat when the white lions charge narrower units like chaff and saurus), he can't keep the white lion unit intact and alive in combat by bumping up the ward save on the unit and getting the BSB and annointed ward saves up. He counts on the mage and annointed getting a 3+ ward save after getting a spell off with +1 to cast and BOH bump and using apotheosis to keep them alive if in combat if necessary Also, with salamanders roaming around (two units of 2 each or one with maybe 1 sally) and flaming out some of the archer units before getting shot up and killed off by rbt and archer shooting (takes a lot with -1 to hti skirmishers and cover) his shooting is directed away from the TG unit and some of the chaff survive longer. The last remaining salamander finished off the last eagle just as it died (one wound left). At the end, the TG charge into the 3 remaining rbts in sequence and the HE army is left with more than half of one archer unit.
It was a close game until the lvl 4 died and the magic balance tipped to the slann. With 8 spells and no lvl 4 left to dispel, the slann turned it into a rout in 2 rounds of combat. We concluded that the set up my son ran has 50-50 or better odds against an optimal High Elf build like that because the salamanders and chameleons plus chaff absorb and must absorb a lot of shooting or else they kill off the rbts and archers and sallies still can potentially due a lot of damage to the white lion horde. 50 white lions with BOTWD and Annoineted and Lvl 4 with BOH is pretty formidable with the 4 bolts, 2 eagles, and 4 units of 15 archers (3 ranks by 5, HE get to fire and fight with an extra rank now) each clearing out the chaff and redirecting as well. The white lions have 3+ AS to skink poison shooting plus average of a 5+ ward save (with High Magic lore attirbute) most of the time on that unit; makes it tough to do much. You try to set up roadblocks but he cuts through them in combat so that the chaff units have no models left after combat to break and flee and he then just gets to reform or overrun with that unit plus his eagles are clearing out and blocking out stuff until the posion shooting skinks hopefully take them out. It takes a lot of positioning to try to get the charge or a flank on the white lions with saurus and TG blocks having a two to one unit advantage and using skink units to bait and flee to slow the white lions down and turn their flank. The white lion horde needs to keep a full four ranks intact to max out combat if potentially facing both the TG and saurus units at the same time or else the two units (saurus and TG) will survive enough to hit back and wear down the white lion unit, especially with hexes and augments from the slann. The High Elf army with one large white lion block needs to try to divide and conquer and a white lion unit struggles if it is much smaller with the special points divided between two infantry blocks or an infantry block and a cav block like dragon princes.
It is hard to describe the actual battle without going real long. Both players have won multiple best general or best overall awards in GTs in the past few years and have really mastered positioning and movement and redirection tactics, especially when playing each other. If the skink priest was not killed earlier on (suicide charge by an eagle after the skink priest already had a wound), then my son could have restrained the saurus unit from pursuing a unit of archers that charged them. The archers were deliberately sacrificed (plus got in some licks with 15 ASF attacks with re-rolls to hit and hitting on 3's) to force the saurus unit to pursue them. The saurus unit in pursuit got exposed to being charged and decimated by the white lions. If the saurus don't pursue the fleeing archers and get to reform, they are far enough away to set up the white lion unit for a bait and flee, if charged, with the white lion unit either exposing its flank to the TG or the white lion unit eventually having to expose its flank to the saurus unit to go after the TG. Instead, the saurus unit ended up in front of the white lions and close enough that they died in droves to the white lions and fled and that just put the white lions right in front of the TG to charge the TG. The key was using two dispel items early on to stop stuff teh HE army needed to do and keep the ward save limited on the white lions, getting through an arcane unforging to take out BOTWD and then fiery convocation (cast with six dice IF but soul of stone rolled the miscast up to an 8) and killing the lvl 4 in the White Lion unit. If the HE player does not have the lvl 4 High Magic mage in the white lion unit (on a corner to stay out of combat when the white lions charge narrower units like chaff and saurus), he can't keep the white lion unit intact and alive in combat by bumping up the ward save on the unit and getting the BSB and annointed ward saves up. He counts on the mage and annointed getting a 3+ ward save after getting a spell off with +1 to cast and BOH bump and using apotheosis to keep them alive if in combat if necessary Also, with salamanders roaming around (two units of 2 each or one with maybe 1 sally) and flaming out some of the archer units before getting shot up and killed off by rbt and archer shooting (takes a lot with -1 to hti skirmishers and cover) his shooting is directed away from the TG unit and some of the chaff survive longer. The last remaining salamander finished off the last eagle just as it died (one wound left). At the end, the TG charge into the 3 remaining rbts in sequence and the HE army is left with more than half of one archer unit.