8th Ed. What is a LM player to do after endtimes!?

[DanBot]

Warning: A long time coming Rant.

It's been building for a while now with all this end times non sense. I just hit my limit. Did I hear that it's rumored Lizardmen are not going to be supported any longer? This is news to me. I'm back from some time away and haven't put a brush to a model yet, but if this is true, I'm not even going to bother. I have faith that AoS is going to improve with time and later versions, but without Lizardmen, I'm not even going to bother with it. It's not like having a favorite character replaced in a show or a new James Bond without your favorite actor. Lizardmen are countless hours of work and progress. Starting over with my second pick isn't an option. And why would I? How can I trust GW to not discontinue my new army too? Pick the new Sigmar Marines? No! I will not accept being an afterthought either. Getting new rules from time to time and reworked every time GW's new model power creep leaves LM behind is not going to work for me. I'm not pooring countless hours and my soul into this hobby to be an afterthought. I don't play often enough to warrant wasting my time with 8th either. I felt the same way about 8th as far as waiting for improvements. I can't accept 8th as a finished game. I'm not going to play 8th until the player base disappears. For me it already has. No one I know plays it. I am not going to convince new players to play an unsupported game, and I won't find any players without moving to a more populated area. Warhammer feels hopeless at the moment. 8th was OK at best. It wasn't good enough and it's over now. That's done. AoS is a long overdue refresh that feels more like steps backward than anything else. This thing is hanging by a thread. Between Checkers and Risk as far as wargamimg depth. What am I to do? Retire my Lizardmen to the attic? Continue on letting GW twist the dagger in my back, leading me on, never releasing a LM update, but never announcing that they have stopped support? Keep waiting? Wait till GW releases something for the LM before bothering with the hobby? I'm lost. How are you handling the news? Are you denying until it is officially announced? That's the most rational reaction I can think of. All my work. I want GW to tell me I'm screwed before I can give up on my Lizards.
Rumors, even from extremely reliable sources are still rumors.

 

[ASSASSIN_NR_1]

Well Lizardmen aren't supported anymore, it's Seraphons now

If they didn't want to continue with the lizards, I really do not understand why they would even bother making rules for them in AOS. They might change, but I don't think they will be completely discontinued although they might not turn out to be how we want them to.

I'm pretty sad at how this AOS thing turned out, but it seems I will have to try it if I want to play, as some from my gaming group seems to like it (although none have tried it yet). It's not like I want to play it, but if that's how it is, what can I do? I don't want to have all my time and money be a waste.

I try to be positive about all of it, but at the end of the day, I just want my Lizardmen back.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

I can't accept 8th as a finished game

I think for the most part it is quite complete. Only 3 books had not been updated: Skaven, Bretonnia and Beastmen. Add in a faq for the armies and it would be 100% complete.

Aside from 8th edition and AoS, there are other options. Kings of War is said to be fairly similar to Warhammer and they are rumoured to be releasing a Lizardmen book in the not too distant future. Additionally, the ETC and Swedish Comp guys have come together to create the next edition of warhammer called 9th age.

AoS is a long overdue refresh that feels more like steps backward than anything else.

Many steps backwards I'm afraid.

What am I to do? Retire my Lizardmen to the attic? Continue on letting GW twist the dagger in my back, leading me on, never releasing a LM update, but never announcing that they have stopped support? Keep waiting? Wait till GW releases something for the LM before bothering with the hobby? I'm lost. How are you handling the news? Are you denying until it is officially announced? That's the most rational reaction I can think of. All my work.

It's difficult to say what you should do, it really depends on what motivates you in the hobby. Is your primary focus fluff? painting/converting? playing?
If you're more into fluff or painting then there is no real cause for concern. If you're more of a gamer (and as you say 8th edition has dried up completely in your area) then your best bet is to give AoS, KoW and 9th age a try, assuming you can get others to follow suit.

I want GW to tell me I'm screwed before I can give up on my Lizards.

I don't think there is any chance of that happening. It would make no business sense on GW's part.

If they didn't want to continue with the lizards, I really do not understand why they would even bother making rules for them in AOS.

Simple... it makes business sense. If they had come out and discontinued every legacy army right from the start, they would have lost an even greater percentage of their current player base. Take a look at this forum for instance, there is quite a bit of interest in AoS. If Lizardmen had be axed right at the onset, I don't think that would be the case. I'm sure GW is hoping that some of these players slowly transition over to the new armies that they will focus the game around.

Also, the legacy armies provided a bit of depth for AoS' release. It wouldn't have felt as big if it only involved two factions for months after launch. In this manner, they can slowly release their new stuff while players get into the game.

Lastly, I'm sure GW has a great deal of old models lying around that they want to sell off. I'm not saying that all the older models will be discontinued and sold off, but I'm sure that many will.


Those are my personal thoughts on the subject. Unfortunately I'm not privy to any inside information so it is speculation at best. As always, only time will tell.

 

[ASSASSIN_NR_1]

Simple... it makes business sense. If they had come out and discontinued every legacy army right from the start, they would have lost an even greater percentage of their current player base. Take a look at this forum for instance, there is quite a bit of interest in AoS. If Lizardmen had be axed right at the onset, I don't think that would be the case. I'm sure GW is hoping that some of these players slowly transition over to the new armies that they will focus the game around.

Also, the legacy armies provided a bit of depth for AoS' release. It wouldn't have felt as big if it only involved two factions for months after launch. In this manner, they can slowly release their new stuff while players get into the game.

That makes me a bit nervous for the future. If they drop Lizardmen, I will NEVER play their game, that would be the end for me no matter how good the game might be (which it isn't in my opinion), I began with the Lizards because I didn't like any other race.
I might play some other game though, but GW would be dead to me, almost forgotten, like they never existed, like the Lizards would if they decided to axe them.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

That makes me a bit nervous for the future. If they drop Lizardmen, I will NEVER play their game, that would be the end for me no matter how good the game might be (which it isn't in my opinion), I began with the Lizards because I didn't like any other race.
I might play some other game though, but GW would be dead to me, almost forgotten, like they never existed, like the Lizards would if they decided to axe them.

That's fully understandable. On the positive side, all this stuff is nothing but rumours and hearsay at the current moment in time.

 

[pendrake]

I might play some other game though, but GW would be dead to me, almost forgotten, like they never existed, like the Lizards would if they decided to axe them.

Reaper makes a game called Warlord. It has a faction called Reptus. A lot of your Lizard figures will work for Warlord. Saurus cavalry are worth the points in a Reptus Army. Bastilodons and Stegadons would have to be used as a proxies for a dragon turtle. That's the only problem with the Reptus army, no dinosaurs to speak of.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

That's the only problem with the Reptus army, no dinosaurs to speak of.

No dinos!

 

[Loxodon]

It is true that 8'th edition's popularity will slowly wane, but I am not quite so pessimistic about it. It is still a very popular game, and at a local level, I expect it to remain prevalent for quite a while. All the old factions will take a long time to have their bases replaced, so for months to come all models bought will be square based, and compatible for with 8'th edition. After that things will get scarce, sure, but how do we know that GW will even replace all of the old faction's bases? If they truly do not care about, say, beastmen, or even lizardmen, they might just not bother. New players would learn Sigmar rules, but would still have the option to play with you if you could convince them. Other than that, there is a strong community for 8'th, which I am sure will keep it going for at least a few years, especially if they keep working on things like Ninth age and Openhammer.

On top of that, games such as Kings of War will ensure that square based miniatures will still be relevant, especially if you want to play both warhammer and KoW. The models can be used for both games, so anyone who plays KoW could just try a match of Fantasy if they wanted. Not to mention, with KoW coming out with it's lizardmen-faction rules soon, and already allowing the preexisting rules to be used in their tournaments, we could always just jump over to that game if need be. Sure, it is not the same, but it is certainly better than nothing.


Also, the Reptus in Warlord DO have dinosaurs, just not that many; https://www.reapermini.com/Miniatures/Reptus/latest/06198

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Also, the Reptus in Warlord DO have dinosaurs, just not that many; https://www.reapermini.com/Miniatures/Reptus/latest/06198

 

[pendrake]

Unridden plastic Cold Ones could work for those. I think Reaper just released the Dragon Turtle in bones plastic so itwould not be very expensive. There is not really a good proxy candudate for big carnos, bastils and steggy's is all.

 

[DanBot]

I hear a lot about using our models as proxies in other games. I know it's not an optimal situation. But it doesn't sit well with me at all. I'd rather play AoS with my models. Using stats that at least somewhat match the fluff and design of the actual model is a must. Calling my stegadon a giant turtle is a no go for me. I love stegadons. I want to use stegs as stegs. I want to see my stegs crush the way stegs should.

Are you guys all for this kind of thing? Skinks, Saurus, Carnos, Slann, Stegs, troglodons, salamanders and all? As long as they're on the table it's "OK" to hell with the LM lore/fluff?

It is true that 8'th edition's popularity will slowly wane, but I am not quite so pessimistic about it. It is still a very popular game

There is no one that plays in my local community. For me, 8th is gone. Unless I move somewhere with a player base just to play 8th, I am alone. I will not be able to convince new players to play. And even if I were able. I couldn't in good conscience get someone into the hobby, then watch it blow up in their face. If I can't field my army, 8th has nothing left for me.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

I hear a lot about using our models as proxies in other games. I know it's not an optimal situation. But it doesn't sit well with me at all. I'd rather play AoS with my models. Using stats that at least somewhat match the fluff and design of the actual model is a must. Calling my stegadon a giant turtle is a no go for me. I love stegadons. I want to use stegs as stegs. I want to see my stegs crush the way stegs should.

Are you guys all for this kind of thing? Skinks, Saurus, Carnos, Slann, Stegs, troglodons, salamanders and all? As long as they're on the table it's "OK" to hell with the LM lore/fluff?

There is no one that plays in my local community. For me, 8th is gone. Unless I move somewhere with a player base just to play 8th, I am alone. I will not be able to convince new players to play. And even if I were able. I couldn't in good conscience get someone into the hobby, then watch it blow up in their face. If I can't field my army, 8th has nothing left for me.

If the 8th edition player base has dried up in your area, then it stands to reason that you probably can't get players to go along with 9th Age either. Coupled with the fact that you don't want to proxy your lizardmen models in other game systems, I'd say you're pretty much stuck with AoS then.

 

[Boothy Baby]

Here is a link to the lizard list (salamanders) for kings of war https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=644257362 (its also got some other work in progress lists in it).

While technically our existing collections would be proxies, they are for the most part very appropriate indeed. For example a stedagon is probably going to be the best "ankylosaurus battle platform" (equipped with blowpipes or a ballista) that money can buy.

There are a couple of units in the list that our collections wont facilitate, and there are a couple of units in our collections that don't have an equivalent. in the list, but on the whole its a very good fit indeed.

 

[Loxodon]

All the current "lizardmen" lists for KoW are fanmade from what I have understood, as they have not come out with the official list yet.

I hear a lot about using our models as proxies in other games. I know it's not an optimal situation. But it doesn't sit well with me at all. I'd rather play AoS with my models. Using stats that at least somewhat match the fluff and design of the actual model is a must. Calling my stegadon a giant turtle is a no go for me. I love stegadons. I want to use stegs as stegs. I want to see my stegs crush the way stegs should.

I can definitely understand that, and I was not talking about just using them as random replacements. I meant if, say, KoW came out with a unit called a "Styracodon", which was a giant ceratopsian-esque dinosaur, I would have no problem using a Stegodon model instead, same goes for a carnosaur.

There is no one that plays in my local community. For me, 8th is gone. Unless I move somewhere with a player base just to play 8th, I am alone. I will not be able to convince new players to play. And even if I were able. I couldn't in good conscience get someone into the hobby, then watch it blow up in their face. If I can't field my army, 8th has nothing left for me.

That is a big shame. As NIGHTBRINGER said though, that means you are probably stuck with AOS for the time being.

 

[The Sauric Ace]

KoW specifically states that they don't have any models for some of the armies coming soon, meaning that they encourage you to use your lizardmen for their reptile army. It's pretty much the acceptable solution. If your friend aren't okay with it or you find it weird, that would make such an army unplayable. It's not proxy if it's the only solution

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Damn you GW for not giving us a proper 9th edition!!!

 

[DanBot]

That is a big shame. As NIGHTBRINGER said though, that means you are probably stuck with AOS for the time being.

Yeah. Since my first post, I have pretty much retired 8th in my mind. "It's over now" I think were my exact words. I pretty much accepted AoS as my solution. Accepted with hope that they would improve and develop the games system. Some of the changes are actually good and fix a lot of weak areas in 8th. But they go unnoticed because of the overwhelmingly shotty frame work encompassing the improvements. I felt, since they recognized and repaired some of 8th's weak spots, hopefully they will do the same and improve all or many of AoS shortcomings. THEN I got the news, that they may not be supporting LM anymore and my optimism toward AoS took a 180. I mean, what am I waiting for? If the game is barely playable now, and by the time it improves to a point I can enjoy the game, LM are gone, I may find myself trying to play legacy AoS. HA! Should I bother pouring my soul into this army? What am I to do? Am I the only one having this issue?

 

[455_PWR]

I have found age of sigmar to be a blast! It is more of a smaller skirmish style game, but lizardmen are one of the better armies out there. Tons of hitting power and staying power with high bravery. They can also be summoned if a unit gets killed off.

I have found some of my favorite characters (gor rok and chakax) are extremely useful now.... chakax with temple guard are just freaking amazing!

The game is less competitive and more about just having fun while playing storyline scenarios. It is different but can be a lot of fun! Keep them on square based and you can play aos, kow, or 8th, maximizing your collection's potential.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Keep them on square based and you can play aos, kow, or 8th, maximizing your collection's potential.

That's good advice! I definitely wouldn't recommend switching over to rounds.

 

[Angaturama]

I HATE AGE OF SHITMAR!!!! whyyyyyy!!! everything is now extremely bad, the rules for archers are over over over powered, and magic is pretty much sheit. So what happens? well, now that age of sigmar ignores the amount of guys you have in an army (no f*****g points) you can't have a fair battle. Problem n°2: BASES???????? ROUND BASES???? WAAAAAAT!!!!!!! Yeah, no more big units, just a mess, a big, fat mess. GW has messed up and created another 40k story. also, at the end of End Times : Archaon: "Lizardmen have spaceships, yes, their pyramids are SPACESHIPS" how 40k isn could fantasy get.