8th Ed. What are our chances against a Gutstar?

[Pinktaco]

I know I'll be playing against one in the near future. I think it's the usual kind - 15-18 IGs, 1 lvl 4, 1 lvl 2, 1 BSB.
Some maneaters (6?) and a couple of cannons.

That is at 2500pts.

I've been thinking about the following list:

Slann w/ channel combo, eldritch thingy and reroll first failed dispel. Wandering Deliberation.
Scroll Caddy.
1-2 scar vets at +1/4+, one with GW and another with spear, no bus.

All skinks core.

26-30 Templeguards.
2 x 3 terradons.
2 x 5-6 cameleon skinks.

2 x salamanders.

So there's a lot of avoidance along with a single stubborn unit.

I'm not trying to tailor a list against OK, instead I'm thinking how good we can do with that list or something else against OK with an all-comers list.

How have your experience been?

 

[n810]

I would say attack with all ranged units and avoid close combat if possible.

 

[Moniker]

Yeah I'd keep feeding the unit various types of skinks while trying to take apart the rest of his army.

 

[LawGnome]

Chaff it into the dirt while feeding poison shots into it. If he takes the Rune Maw, magic the maneaters, otherwise put as much firepower into that unit as you can. We don't have anything that can really stand up to that many Str 6 attacks, so avoid getting into combat.

While you can't force an overrun like you can with a frenzied unit, you want to keep valuable things away until suck a time as you can combo charge.

If possible (again, depends on if they have the rune maw or not), debuff them and buff yourself. The more you can sway the inevitable battle, the better.

 

[Scalenex]

My local meta doesn't use deathstars a lot (except for the Vampire Counts), so I could be easily wrong, but if I KNEW I was facing a horde of Ironguts, I'd consider taking a Shadow Slann or a High magic Slann that swaps out spells until he has two or three Shadow hexes.

If the enemy is putting all their eggs in one basket, are they not vulnerable to single target hex spells?

Shadow casters are guaranteed to be able to hex their WS and/or Initiative. You have a good chance to hex their strength and/or Toughness and Pit of Shades will wreak havoc on expensive ogres with Initiative 2 (or less if hexed). If you roll Withering you can synergize the spell with the "shoot the carp out of it strategy" the previous posters are suggesting, especially Salamanders (though the 40 mm bases hinders Salamander templates a bit, wounding on twos should cancel this out) .

 

[Pinktaco]

I don't like to tailor and besides he probably fields the rune maw Banner that can deflect any spells cast directly at it :/

 

[Pinktaco]

On the other hand I can try and destroy the banner - it can only be used on the bsb so he won't have any other magi items. With high magi that is.

 

[chefsdad]

On the other hand I can try and destroy the banner - it can only be used on the bsb so he won't have any other magi items. With high magi that is.

Which he can rune maw onto some gnoblars.




Your list looks like standard lizardmen fare, so should be ok. From an armchair perspective (as most of my thoughts are), I'd say man eaters should be the first target, especially if they have poison/sniper. They can take out your priest/slann fairly quickly.

Otherwise, poison the hell out of the gutstar, hope you don't die to hellheart, and engage with temple guard when the star is reduced. Obviously with magic back-up.


Oh, and expect the cannons to kill the vets. That way you might be pleasantly surprised

 

[Screamer]

If ha hasn't got mor units than that, you should be able to use the terradons to double flee, rally and do it again next turn, while the rest of the army A. shoot of/charge and kill the man eaters and B. Kill the cannons.

When their shooters are dead it should be quite safe to move around the board and finish of the gut-star. A cowboy to the flank could possibly shake the unit by himself. Especially if it's an old-blood with piranha-blade and potion of strength. Challenge, move the bsb to the back (if he refuses) and rack up some nice kills, break them and run them down. Should work in theory, and the look on his face should be hilarious

 

[Pinktaco]

On the other hand I can try and destroy the banner - it can only be used on the bsb so he won't have any other magi items. With high magi that is.

Which he can rune maw onto some gnoblars.




Your list looks like standard lizardmen fare, so should be ok. From an armchair perspective (as most of my thoughts are), I'd say man eaters should be the first target, especially if they have poison/sniper. They can take out your priest/slann fairly quickly.

Otherwise, poison the hell out of the gutstar, hope you don't die to hellheart, and engage with temple guard when the star is reduced. Obviously with magic back-up.


Oh, and expect the cannons to kill the vets. That way you might be pleasantly surprised

It's highly unlikely theyll take out the slann with poison. Just look at the modifiers:
Long range, sniper, multiple shot and possibly vs skirmishers. That puts the Maneaters at 7+.
If against slann add 5 wounds and a 50% chance of saving it due to ward. If they don't pack ogre brace of pistols they'll average 0.5 wounds each turn as long as they're at long range, however since they can't march and shoot I'm guessing that'll be at least two rounds.

all of that us assuming 6 models though.

Im not too sure what to think of them. If my opponent take 300pts and targets a priest then I say let him

 

[chefsdad]

12" short range and no move/shoot penalty, and "the odd wound" builds up, especially if you factor miscasts. And the death of the priest early isn't all about points - you lose your scroll, your second Iceshard and your vassal - quite a good haul for a 300 point unit from ONE turn of shooting. Just something to be wary of.


Also factor in magic potentially killing the skirmishers off a bit (especially if he rocks a firebelly and/or heavens magic), or just shoots the skirmishers without the extra -1 - only needs to kill 6 with both magic and shooting and your slann is taking 2x iron blasters to the face. Of course, he might not run them


Still, I'd personally poison/magic the maneaters early. They're generally smaller units and low armoured, but are problematic and plenty of points.


Other than that I guess it's just keeping away from the gutstar until it's nice and soft.

 

[Pinktaco]

He still can't march and shoot unless there's some sort of ogre rule allowing them? Or are they considered skirmishers? That'll leave them with 18". I don't know.. I'll have to play against them to actuslly know how it is. For all I care I can put my characters in the opposite corner of the Maneaters and keep away from them.

But yes firing on them with 12 cameleons can probably take one out a turn.

 

[GhostWarrior]

Depeding on the lore of his Lvl2, I would caution you to be wary of putting the Slann in a Skirmishing unit. A Level 2 Firebelly, for example, could toss out a big fireball, and if successful could wipe-out the Skink unit. All of this would occur before the Cannons and Maneaters would shoot.

Just a tactical tip .

You are correct though on the Sniping Maneaters. When I was running them (pre WoC meta) I found that their best targets were any models without a Ward save, or a decent armor/ward combo. A slann would be low on my list for shooting (skink priest would be high).

Besides, that unit is soo much more useful in combat - you should count yourself lucky if he's focusing them on shooting first.

On the plus side, that unit is expensive and terribly vulnerable to the missile damage you're bringing.

 

[Hinge]

If you keep the slann in a skink skrimish unit, you should also easlily get hard cover from the TG unit by sitting behind it.

Long range, multi shot, hard cover, skrimish, sniper is a whopping -6 to hit. This is why sniper is a suboptimal choice for maneaters, just to easy to mitigate against. Better to go Poison/scouts or Poison/stubborn.

 

[NexS1]

Stegadon with giant bow and Lore of Beast magic arrow can thin down the ogres fairly well. Add sharpened horns into a couple of stegs and combo charge for turn 4-ish(enough time to bolt thrower away the ranks)