8th Ed. Useful Chief

[Pinktaco]

Random question: could we use a skink chief on a bird with crown of command and dragon helm? To hold up flemming banner/attack units.

 

[GCPD]

Yes. However, that still leaves him Ld6 with no re-roll. For practically the same points (120), you can get a Scar-Vet on a Cold One with the Dragonhelm, Light Armour and a Great Weapon. He's Leadership 8 instead of 6, and although not Stubborn he should generate enough combat resolution on his own to beat most static CR. In the event that he does lose a combat, it'll either be due to musician or by -1/-2, so still no worse off than the Chief.

 

[Putzfrau]

yeah, t3 is what makes rippers pretty MEH to me. If they were t4 they'd be worth it, but t3 is just /shrug.

=> Agreed. That T3 thing has really annoyed me several times.

It's really a deal breaker for me. Combined with the low initiative, it makes rippers far to fragile for my liking.

I'd LOVE if they had a saurus stat line on the back of the ripper, or if they could be used like a normal cavalry unit at all but oh well.

I guess mostly i just want some sweet sweet monstrous cav. Maybe some type of large crocodile. Impact hits, decent strength, 1+ save. mmmmm.

Although at that point i could probably just be using a different army >.>

On the skink chief issue, i never seem to have room in my hero points to squeeze in a chief. Carnosaur all day.

 

[Pinktaco]

Yes. However, that still leaves him Ld6 with no re-roll. For practically the same points (120), you can get a Scar-Vet on a Cold One with the Dragonhelm, Light Armour and a Great Weapon. He's Leadership 8 instead of 6, and although not Stubborn he should generate enough combat resolution on his own to beat most static CR. In the event that he does lose a combat, it'll either be due to musician or by -1/-2, so still no worse off than the Chief.

Ah yes of course. Is there any reason though?

 

[Pinktaco]

yeah, t3 is what makes rippers pretty MEH to me. If they were t4 they'd be worth it, but t3 is just /shrug.

=> Agreed. That T3 thing has really annoyed me several times.

It's really a deal breaker for me. Combined with the low initiative, it makes rippers far to fragile for my liking.

I'd LOVE if they had a saurus stat line on the back of the ripper, or if they could be used like a normal cavalry unit at all but oh well.

I guess mostly i just want some sweet sweet monstrous cav. Maybe some type of large crocodile. Impact hits, decent strength, 1+ save. mmmmm.

Although at that point i could probably just be using a different army >.>

On the skink chief issue, i never seem to have room in my hero points to squeeze in a chief. Carnosaur all day.

We would all love that, along with better COR, but that's not how it went <.< still though, if one can get then in position they can wreck sh1t up. Getting them there with their lousy T3, AS4+ frenzy is the hard part.

 

[GCPD]

Yes. However, that still leaves him Ld6 with no re-roll. For practically the same points (120), you can get a Scar-Vet on a Cold One with the Dragonhelm, Light Armour and a Great Weapon. He's Leadership 8 instead of 6, and although not Stubborn he should generate enough combat resolution on his own to beat most static CR. In the event that he does lose a combat, it'll either be due to musician or by -1/-2, so still no worse off than the Chief.

Ah yes of course. Is there any reason though?

The mobility from Fly and thr lack of stupidity to worry about is pretty much the only reason. But bare in mind the chief will be t3 with 3+ as at best. Even with 2++ he's going to fail 1 in 6 and will be getting wounded a lot.

 

[Sleboda]

I guess mostly i just want some sweet sweet monstrous cav. Maybe some type of large crocodile. Impact hits, decent strength, 1+ save. mmmmm.

=> If the rumors hold true, you may get your wish soon. Just add in some gryhpon knights/skull creushers/mournfang and convert them to look the way you want to fit in with Lizardmen.

 

[lizard_sNow]

What rumors might that be Sleb?

 

[Pinktaco]

Yes. However, that still leaves him Ld6 with no re-roll. For practically the same points (120), you can get a Scar-Vet on a Cold One with the Dragonhelm, Light Armour and a Great Weapon. He's Leadership 8 instead of 6, and although not Stubborn he should generate enough combat resolution on his own to beat most static CR. In the event that he does lose a combat, it'll either be due to musician or by -1/-2, so still no worse off than the Chief.

Ah yes of course. Is there any reason though?

The mobility from Fly and thr lack of stupidity to worry about is pretty much the only reason. But bare in mind the chief will be t3 with 3+ as at best. Even with 2++ he's going to fail 1 in 6 and will be getting wounded a lot.

I was more thinking of a scar vet with the dragon helm. Does anybody actually do it?

 

[Putzfrau]

What rumors might that be Sleb?

I believe he is referring to the potential for new allies rules come 9th.

 

[Pinktaco]

not rumours but speculation, unless I've missed something. And that sh1t should stay the hell away.

 

[lizard_sNow]

oh... I really don't want allies. If I wanted to play with mournfang I would have started ogres...

 

[Putzfrau]

I agree. Allies have become a pretty major part of 40k and i still avoid them.

 

[lordkingcrow]

In my opinion, the only time allies are fun is when you and a buddy tag in against 2 others. Even then, we usually create our lists separate and come up with some narrative as to why our armies would join together. It's a personal preference, but I have a hard time lining my lizards up with WoC or Daemons in order to take out Empire and HE. Then again, I'm not a big fan of the "armies of order" and "armies of destruction" either. Back in the day, Lizardmen were pretty neutral aside from their hatred of Chaos. There is a reason we referred to the others as "lesser races". What happened to good ol racism between fictional armies? For example: Why would a Dwarf army get all the bonuses from a HE army as well as have to take panic tests, just because they are from the "armies of order"? Don't they dislike each other down to their very core? Seems like that would be a pretty thin alliance considering the War of the Beard and thousands of years of mistrust.

Should be:
"Looks like those scrawny elf bastards are running Grungi."
Grungi spits on the ground, "Figured they would, that's why our gun line is covering the flank. Can't expect an elf's courage to hold the line."

Not:
"Our beloved allies have failed Grungi!"
Pisses self, "By Grimnir how could this be! Run for it!"

Alas, I have found myself ranting. Am I alone in this?

 

[LawGnome]

In my opinion, the only time allies are fun is when you and a buddy tag in against 2 others. Even then, we usually create our lists separate and come up with some narrative as to why our armies would join together. It's a personal preference, but I have a hard time lining my lizards up with WoC or Daemons in order to take out Empire and HE. Then again, I'm not a big fan of the "armies of order" and "armies of destruction" either. Back in the day, Lizardmen were pretty neutral aside from their hatred of Chaos. There is a reason we referred to the others as "lesser races". What happened to good ol racism between fictional armies? For example: Why would a Dwarf army get all the bonuses from a HE army as well as have to take panic tests, just because they are from the "armies of order"? Don't they dislike each other down to their very core? Seems like that would be a pretty thin alliance considering the War of the Beard and thousands of years of mistrust.

Should be:
"Looks like those scrawny elf bastards are running Grungi."
Grungi spits on the ground, "Figured they would, that's why our gun line is covering the flank. Can't expect an elf's courage to hold the line."

Not:
"Our beloved allies have failed Grungi!"
Pisses self, "By Grimnir how could this be! Run for it!"

Alas, I have found myself ranting. Am I alone in this?

Yeah, I feel the same. Just from a fluff perspective, I always love to think that my lizards just look down on the elves. "Oh, you guys think that YOU'RE the ones that stopped the chaos invasion? How cute."

With how the background for the lizards was written, there aren't many armies I would want to have as allies. We're just too xenophobic to ally with anyone who isn't also scaly.

Now Ogres, they are easy to see allying with someone due to their mercenary nature, and really are the only ones that I can imagine doing so (well, them and the the classic WoC and DoC mix). Everyone else hates everyone else, so there is no chance of allies ever really working.

 

[GCPD]

I just want to preface that I despise the idea of 40k style allies system in Fantasy.

However, that being said, I've always wanted to do a 'Last Samurai' style Empire contingent, themed around a Captain who survives an ambush in Lustria and is enlisted to show Lizardmen the Youngbloods weaponry, and in the process they go a bit native. So there'd be a Sergeant drilling Skinks on using muskets, Knights riding on big lizards with a mish-mash of Aztec-style armour (like this guy http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/attachments/projects/18394d1345918548-bretonnian-foreign-legion-2012-08-25-11.12.19.jpg), etc.

Man I love that movie.

I was more thinking of a scar vet with the dragon helm. Does anybody actually do it?

Sure. I think its actually quite popular in a number of builds. You've got the dirt cheap one for 120 points, or you can tack on a Dawn Stone for the re-rolls, and then if you want add OTS.

 

[reptile3607]

I mount my chief on a ancient stegadon- but only so I can take two, and still have razordons and salamanders... I love dinosaurs.

 

[GCPD]

That makes me miss the Stegadon War-Spear Although I suppose that it would be pretty OP with D3 wounds.

 

[Ixt]

I recently mounted a Skink Chief BSB w/ Eternal Flame on a regular Stegadon with Sharpened Horns as a monster/beast hunter & cavalry/chariot interceptor. I haven't been able to find many other uses for him when kitted this way. I try to keep a Solar Engine Bastiladon around this build, which is usually successful since Stegadons tend to draw all the fire.

These two monsters working in tandem often provide a wealth of advantages. With most monsters being I2 (including the young Stegadon), the presence of a Bastiladon causes our dinocow to rank higher on initiative than many monsters in Warhammer, and fight simultaneously with quite a lot of other units. Plus, the Bastiladon offers decent fire support and capably protects one of the Stegadon's flank from countercharges - not bad.

The most effective build that I've run had me take a spear, light armor, a shield, and BSB/Eternal Flame in a 2000 point list. It leaves room for a Scar Vet or Priest. Plus, it doesn't cost much more than an Ancient Steg with EotG and Sharpened Horns, and also costs less than having a Skink Priest mounted atop the latter (though the aforementioned fulfills a much different role).

Know what? Let's go crazy and give the Skink Chief a Razor Standard! That could be fun... Hmm...

It's a bummer that this fellow can't have magic items as a BSB. It's a bummer that he can't be upgraded to have Poisoned Attacks (wtf?!). That said, I think that it is still our best BSB option. He fills in great as utility, and makes a pretty decent monster killer. On any Stegadon, he's even somewhat survivable. Scar Veterans yield more benefits from magic items by far (which they must surrender to become BSB), so the Chief is my #1 candidate aside from the Slann.

So, yeah, that's it.

Anyway, here's a Skink Chief BSB/Flame on a young Stegadon with base stats:

• 18" Leadership rerolls rather than 12" that reliably moves downfield - nice. Other dinos love this
• HoG complements entire model, unlike Ancient Steg (for higher BS, Giant Bow S5 potency vs. Giant Blowpipes S3 volume that needs 6's anyway)
• Giant Bow is now FLAMING POISONED GIANT BOW that can be shot at 36" from turn 1-6, rather than 18" shots from turn 3-6
• I6/I4/I3 WS4/WS3/WS2 S5/S3 base stats monster hunter, meaning all of your stuff strikes before most monsters
• Average of 4 total flaming Impact Hits at S5 on the charge, probably a wound or two being multiplied into D3 wounds - might peel 3 or 4 wounds off the thing's profile, no regen
• Then Skink Chief's 3 S5 attacks, probably hitting monsters on 3's, causing 1 wound, flaming, no regen - a failed save here could kill the monster
• Crew won't do much without Wyssan's - maybe 1 wound, flaming, no regen - a failed save here could kill the monster
• With young Stegadon at I3, the monster - without buffs - probably hasn't attacked yet, meaning...
• 4 S5 flaming attacks from young Steg vs 3 from Ancient Steg. Probably 1 or 2 wounds, flaming, no regen - a failed save here (with average rolls from both parties) should most definitely kill the monster
• If monster hits back, Steg has enough survivability to last even with the worse armor save (Ld6 stubborn w/ re-roll)

And that's just the BSB build, which I field primarily for its utility. The additional initiative, additional attack, and lower cost are the difference-makers for me, but I understand why so many prefer an Ancient.

Throw in some magic items and/or potions instead of BSB, and you have a pretty lethal model on the table that could be kitted with variety. Potion of Strength + Warrior's Bane @ S7 could make opposing monsters nearly useless before they even get an attack in, especially with a Horros or Wyssans's buff.

Piranha Blade... Sacred Stegadon Helm of Itza w/ Beasts Priests... Ironcurse Icon + Talisman of Protection... Other Trickster's Shard... Ogre Blade + Potion of Foolhardiness... Harmonic Convergence on the Stegadon & Howdah and/or Curse of the Midnight Wind on enemy monster... Savage Beast of Horros and/or Wyssan's Wildform...

I think these things could be pretty effective against monsters. Frees up your Old Blood or Scar Vet to kill blocks and blocks of stuff, or scare things away with their Carnosaur's turbo-Terror, keeps Skirmishers & Camos from getting Terror'd off the board or being killed by turn 2/3 because it's not your day for 6's, etc.

Some questions:

Does Unstoppable Stampede increases attacks for the crew?

Does a Skink Chief with the Sacred Stegadon Helm of Itza benefit from Sharpened Horns?

Does the Savage Beast of Horros extend to the Stegadon when cast on the Chief?

These all say, "the model...," and - with respect to the wording within Howdah Crew - seem unclear.

 

[Putzfrau]

Pretty sure you can't fire the bow with the skink chief.