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8th Ed. Unit Sizes

It's not actually that unwieldy,,,,
And even going from 10 wide to 5 wide only makes you what, 3 inches furthernaway?
It depends what's sitting opposite, basically, match it and add 2 to a max of 10
Better?
 
So would a good unit size for 3000 - 4000
be like a 10 x 3 H & S with 2 units of 5 x 4 spears
or would it be be better for a 6 x 5 H & W?
Thanks again!
 
Depends what your playing, match what your opponent does, if he fiefs a hord, field a hord back,
If your scared of loosing combat, keep the rank bonus,
Don't be afraid to swop between the two,
 
hmm i normally face vamps and ogres
but 2 units of 5 x 4 spears would be sufficient to flank etc
 
or should the bigger unit of 6x5 be spears and have 2 smaller units of 5x4 H&W
 
I posted this elsewhere, but I really think it belongs here to.

IMHO 40 saurus is way too much. I'm assuming you'll be fielding them in a 10X4 which is an idea I played with (10x3). But after reading what others had to say about a unit with that wide of a frontage it doesn't seem worth it. You'll have to be fighting an equally wide enemy unit to make use of all the attacks that the saurus unit can through out and if you're not you run the risk of being duel charged and not being able to reform at the end of combat. I think the best unit width for lizards is still the 6 wide formation making a unit size of 30-36 models the optimum amount to maximize attacks, ranks and casualty absorption. And if need be you can still field them 10 wide.

But then you have to look at cost. A unit of 30 costs roughly 400 pts. A unit of 36 roughly 460 pts. That's with spears and full command. Now are those costs maximizing unit effectiveness with detracting from the functionality of the rest of the army? Keep in mind that a skaven player can field the same size unit plus a weapons team for roughly half the points. And that maximizes their effectiveness. Saurus on the other hand are equally effective at much smaller unit sizes and you don't waste points on models you are never going to use. So, I think saurus unit sizes of 24-25 (6x4 and 5x5 respectively) optimize ranks, attacks and cost to maximum efficiency, especially when there are two saurus blocks being fielded. If there is only one then take a block of 30, maybe.

As for TG, I think a block of 20 (6x4 including slann) or 16 (5x4 including slann) is all that you need.
 
Cool thanks for the advice
i guess ill try with a 6x5spears and 2 5x4 H&S
 
has anyone tried hording with skinks/ What do you think is a good unit size for reg and skirmisher skinks?
 
Kurlin said:
Skaven are very hard to beat now. They can just throw big units of slaves at you to tar pit you. Strength in Numbers along with steadfast is just crazy good, no need to even be near the general for the most part with LD10 slaves. then they can just fire into combat, or get a flank on you.
Click to expand...

I know what you mean. Just wrote up my first 8th ed. skaven list. Only 9 units (not very hoardy right) but 250 models and 100 of those are slaves. Pretty decent combo I came up with 'em (at least I think it's decent) is cast the spell Death Frenzy (as frenzy but +2 attacks and d6 auto wounds at the end of the round) on a unit of 50 slaves (10x5). That's 60 attacks. Granted WS 2 STR 3 attacks, but still 60 of 'em. Still 30 hits average against basic troops. God I love my skaven! :jawdrop:
 
Kurlin said:
Skaven are very hard to beat now. They can just throw big units of slaves at you to tar pit you. Strength in Numbers along with steadfast is just crazy good, no need to even be near the general for the most part with LD10 slaves. then they can just fire into combat, or get a flank on you.
Click to expand...
Take Lore of Light and cast Banishment on 'em. :bored:
 
I've gotta straight disagree here with almost all the advise so far in the thread. 10x3 saurus is a horrible idea...made even worse when given spears. Also, the way you maximize the effect of a combat reform is by starting with a small frontage, and blunting an assault, then reforming to a wider frontage to max out your potential attackers in the front row. Sure you have a 'potential' of 40 attacks with 10x3, but only if your opponent has a frontage of 200mm MIMIMUM. Odds are, you'll have a whole bunch of lizards standing around in combat.

Like Strewart said, start out 5 or 6 wide, then reform to maximize your attacks. Also, HW+shield seems like a much better choice to me, even for a defensive block. My default unit is 20 saurus, 6x3 plus change if I'm being aggressive...or 5x4 if I'm playing defensive.
 
If your opponent fields a 5x3 unit of Orc boys opposite you, why not match it?
10x3 more than doubles your offensive power, while only giving him less thn a third of a boost,
Unit of 30 orca against a 5x4 saurus block
28 attacks, 14 hit 7 wound, 5ish dead saurus,
attacks back,
20 attacks 10 hit 5 dead orcs
Drawn combat

Both as a horde,
40 attacks 20 hits 10 wounds 7ish dead saurus,
Back,
33 attacks, 18 hits, 9 dead orcs,
We win by 2

I'm not saying hordes are always the answer, but you should aim to be matching what your opponent is fielding.
There's no point giving them an extra rank of attacks AND attacks for having a larger flank than us.
You should be looking to maximize attacks, I mean ,,, they are saurus! Unless your looking down the front of a unit of chaos knights, you rant gonna be losing by much, and you will still be steadfast.
 
I see the deployment phase being rather important now as obviously opponents are also going to be thinking 'I've got a unit of 35, I'll wait to see what he does and either go horde or 5-6 wide'.

What do you want to do if your opponent goes horde? Equal it for big attacks both side? Or go 5 wide for steadfast and to deny some of his models attacking? Probably wide if you are a strong unit like Saurus. Random musings...
 
Also as Saurus equipment list does'nt lose the hand weapon when you take spears you can use your hand weapon/shield combo when the casualties pile in, unlike most other units.
 
Unfortunately, they can't. 8th ed. specifies you have to used any special weapons if you have them...

Phil
 
But as the hand weapon is in thier equipment rather than just being the automatic one you get doesn't that make it one of their special weapons
 
Unfortunately not... Rules speciafy that "If a model carries a special close combat weapon, he must fight with it in the close combat phase - he cannont elect to use his hand weapon instead." Doesn't make a difference how he got the HW.

Phil
 
I don't see the spear as being a "special weapon." It's an equipment choice and doesn't replace the HW. Now magic weapons on characters or the TG champ would be special weapons so you couldn't field a old-blood with both a sword of might and a great weapon. It's one or the other.
 
Unfortunately, if you read p. 88-89 in the 8th ed. book, everything that is not a "hand weapon", sobasically any weapon your model is equipped with, whether you pay for it or not, is a special weapon and must be used. So no HW&S parry for our spear saurus ou temple guards!

Phil
 
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