7th Ed. Tyrion

[strewart]

No not really. Not at all actually. Not only does Tyrion have magic resistance 2 to throw the spell off, remember the entire unit including Tyrion is immune to flaming attacks so the salamander wouldn't even touch him.

 

[Barotok]

Uggh, yes thanks for the reminder, this has been mentioned before in this thread. So much for that idea.

 

[Sashu]

A model does not need to be in contact to accept a challenge, it only needs to be in the fighting rank. So your idea will not work, Tyrion could accept the challenge even if he isn't in base contact. You could charge in and not issue a challenge, but then you run the risk of him throwing out a challenge instead, and with ASF he probably will.

Page 77 of the Red Book says that the model must be in base to base. Fighting rank is something left over form 6th edition.

 

[strewart]

Wow that is something I did not know and haven't heard on the forums anywhere despite several threads talking about hitting the flank to avoid a challenge. I will have to check that when I get home. Do you need to be in BTB with the model you are challenging, or just the unit? So if the carnosaur was with a unit of cold ones and Tyrion touched the cold ones, could he then challenge the carni or not?

 

[Barotok]

The player may choose any one character from those in bast contact with the enemy to issue a challenge with.

This isn't 100% clear but if we read further;

Also note that in order to participate in a challenge, either to issue it or to meet it, a character must be fighting in combat already. This means that the model must actually be positioned base-to-base against an enemy model. A character that is no already fighting, for example because he is in the front of a formation which has been attacked in the rear, cannont take part in a challenge.

If the Carnosaur is in combat it is acceptable to meet a challenge with it. If you are somehow able to clip charge Tyrion's unit and avoid getting into base-to-base with him while still getting a maximum number of models in combat (good luck with this) then you can avoid Tyrion. That's of course if you charge in the front. Charging in the rear or flank will most likely render him useless.

After reading this, I'd say the best way to 'deal' with Tyrion is to make sure your opponent doesn't bring special characters and you don't either.

*edit* Grammer / Spelling / Fromatting

 

[strewart]

*edit* Grammer / Spelling / Fromatting

Sorry Barotok, I just found that funny enough to quote.

So the rule is a bit different to what I thought. I thought the accepting model only had to be in the fighting rank, this opens up a few possibilites against my opponents that couldn't have been done before if their character needs to actually be fighting.

I agree about leaving special characters at home, in 6th ed (for most anyway) they actually required opponents approval, now they can be taken whenever. I find it a good idea if taking an expensive special character to let my opponent know so he can either bring his own character or think of a way to deal with it, otherwise the game just gets boring.

Tyrion's only real weakness is his t3, but that only matters if you can break through his 0+ armour, 4+ ward, regeneration, immunity to fire, magic resistance and striking first with s7. Flank charge sure, but good luck since he has a 20" charge range and his DP have 16", they aren't a slow unit.

 

[Barotok]

Also, who in their right mind would field Tyrion and then willingly take a charge from a stegadon in the flank of their cavalry unit, unless there was a huge danger of them fleeing off the board?

The thing about having a character in the fighting rank is interesting too, because I've read in a lot of places and seen players who try and clip charge on purpose. It's important to remember that along with this rule, you have to try and get as many models as possible into combat. Now, if the only way for you to complete the charge is to make a 1v1 model clip, it is still a valid charge (because you're bringing models into B2B) but you won't see that very often and it's even harder to plan for. I actually think that this is one of the most overlooked CC rules in the game.

 

[Sashu]

If Tyion is in the center of the unit it is hard not to get him into base to base; however, frequently characters are simply put on the side. This allows for the opportunity to engage the unit without fighting Tyrion. This will only happen against sloppy players, a top tier player wouldn't make that mistake, but then, you have other problems.

The absolute best way to kill Tyrion is killing blow, the bypasses the armor, and regeneration, however, only one thing in the lizardman list has killing blow making that a little difficulty.

The best solution would be to ignore him. He's alot of points, so is his unit, add them together you are looking at 750 points easily. At this point you can feed him a skink unit every turn for the entire game and still not be behind.

Set up something like this.

He will have to charge your skinks, they are in his way. However, when you flee he must persue the closest visable skirmisher, the guy in red.

This will pull his unit WAY out of possition.



Plan turn one, he moves forward.
Turn two he charges your screen.
Turn three he has to turn around.
Turn four pull him off with another screen.
Turn five he is getting back in possiton.
Turn six game is more or less already over, if you need, throw him another unit.

So for 2, maybe 3 screens, you are fine. He just had a 750 point unit kill 200 points, sounds like a great trade to me.

Now, the hard part of the game is setting this up. It takes practice and skill, but onces you get used to doing stuff like this you can mitigate just about any deathstar unit.

 

[lupercal]

Sashu i agree with your concept but it won't work where we play we don't stop at 6 turns mabye i should instate that rule but i don't think i would do it anyway cause if he is controlling my entire deployment with that 1 unit then he is already winning and he generally deploys that unit right in the middle of his line now

 

[Sashu]

Sashu i agree with your concept but it won't work where we play we don't stop at 6 turns mabye i should instate that rule but i don't think i would do it anyway cause if he is controlling my entire deployment with that 1 unit then he is already winning and he generally deploys that unit right in the middle of his line now

He won't be able to control your entire deployment, just the smaller elements and that is what smaller elements are for.

The other option would be to take the lore of death on a slann with bane head and just use steal soul against him. Sure he gets his ward save but if he fails it twice he dies.

 

[strewart]

Don't forget he also gets his magic resistance 2... Also, that is rather brave (?) putting a Slann within 12" of Tyrion, you would want to hope he doesn't charge the Slann unit before you can successfully get the spell off twice.

I feel very pessimistic shooting down all the ideas presented to kill him. Really I am being mostly realistic, Tyrion is a very tough nut to crack.

 

[Barotok]

I was also thinking that magic would be a safe route to go considering someone fielding Tyrion will probably be easily overpowered in the magic phase. Perhaps lore of metal to negate the AS for the unit and break them down that way? Also Lore of Metal would probably be good. I'm talking about breaking down the unit around him though, eventually he's got to fail a LD test.

Tyrion is a tough nut to crack and after talking with a friend who has a great HE army, he personally won't field Tyrion, just because our group usually doesn't take special characters.