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AoS Tuning DT for expected new meta.

Bartuk said:
Had a game vs KO today. I double turned and he conceded after turn 3.
- the screen worked. He killed only 180 points of skinks in his first turn.
- I only casted balewind (long ranges of KO were the main factor)
- Sallys and Chameleon porting everywhere let him struggle to pressure where he wanted.
- the KO ship healing is very strong.

Next stop: CoS Irondrakes+bridge
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that's wonderful! I'm glad it worked well for you! Yeah the ships are the scary part of that army. Sounds like you handled them well though.

one thing I like to do against ranged armies is to use one my casts to throw geminids out on the board. I know it won't hit anyone turn 1 probably , but I get to move it during the end of turn and it blocks movement and gives them something else to think about. Sometimes they waste a spell to remove them too, which is fine as it didn't really cost me anything to cast.
 
Jason839 said:
that's wonderful! I'm glad it worked well for you! Yeah the ships are the scary part of that army. Sounds like you handled them well though.

one thing I like to do against ranged armies is to use one my casts to throw geminids out on the board. I know it won't hit anyone turn 1 probably , but I get to move it during the end of turn and it blocks movement and gives them something else to think about. Sometimes they waste a spell to remove them too, which is fine as it didn't really cost me anything to cast.
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Yes! Should have replaced the arcane bolt with placing geminids.
 
Played FeC today with this list. (12 Flayers, GKoTG, some Battleline, some Heroes)
After surviving the first two turns, the summoning and teleporting realy shined and took the game for the Seraphon. I like this list more every game i play with it. :-) (Used the quicksilver sword version the last three games.)
 
Bartuk said:
Played FeC today with this list. (12 Flayers, GKoTG, some Battleline, some Heroes)
After surviving the first two turns, the summoning and teleporting realy shined and took the game for the Seraphon. I like this list more every game i play with it. :) (Used the quicksilver sword version the last three games.)
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Thats great! Im happy you are also having success with it. Its pretty good in the current meta. Lots of people are not taking lists meant to play 5 turns. They are taking lists meant to win or lose by the first 3 turns, and when we deny their first turn with screens and hiding stuff in deepstrike it hurts a lot.
 
Have you played a mirror match? I don't have any Seraphon players in my local playing group and i think i will meet a lot of FoS Skink-spam-lists in the upcoming tournament season. My thoughts so far:

1) Kill the Starpriest first if possible (It honestly shouldn't ;) )
2) Kill the Priest / Astrolithbearer
3) Kroak is a trap (If he teleports away from his guard i think i can give it a go with the Salamanders.)
4) I can't rely on getting stellar tempest out often enough to kill the Skinks.
 
Bartuk said:
Have you played a mirror match? I don't have any Seraphon players in my local playing group and i think i will meet a lot of FoS Skink-spam-lists in the upcoming tournament season. My thoughts so far:

1) Kill the Starpriest first if possible (It honestly shouldn't ;) )
2) Kill the Priest / Astrolithbearer
3) Kroak is a trap (If he teleports away from his guard i think i can give it a go with the Salamanders.)
4) I can't rely on getting stellar tempest out often enough to kill the Skinks.
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All of the above is true, although personally the ability to run and charge/shoot and the buff the skink priest has puts him above the starpriests in the priority list. Your kroak is better than his kroak because you have a buff slann and he doesn't. So the magic phase should be yours to control.

It's a super complicated matchup with a lot of variables. Depending on the version of FoS, it can be very easy or very difficult. If it's just 1 40 man block with 1 starpriests and 1 priest you can focus either the skink block or the heroes depending on what feels correct in the moment. Then you take out the astrolith to limit magic and summoning and proceed from there.

The hardest versions for this list to beat(and in my opinion the best fos build) are double 40 skinks, double salamanders, 2 starpriests, and 2 priests. The redundancy of the list is super annoying to face. If you kill The skinks the salamanders eat you. If you kill the heroes you still have 160 weak shots that will make you fail saves, and two units of salamanders. The best way to beat this list is screen them out and make them go first. Don't forget they can teleport 1 unit and run and charge/shoot with the other one. So screens will be large distances. Deny their first turn and Don't let them get the double. You won't be able to do enough damage turn 1 to survive the double so if they get the double chances are you lose turn 1. Fortunately this is true for you. If you get the chance to double turn them, it will make things significantly more manageable for you.

Fangs of Sotek is probably top 3 strongest lists in the game. Fortunately, you are scissors while fangs is rock and the lists people are taking to fight fangs is paper. So you will be able to beat the anti-fangs shooting lists while they lose to them. So you can get lucky and avoid fangs sometimes.
 
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Jason839 said:
Don't let them get the double. You won't be able to do enough damage turn 1 to survive the double so if they get the double chances are you lose turn 1.
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Think this is the biggest thing in seraphon v seraphon. the double is massive, but in DT you can mitigate that a little by being patient with your drops. But yeah, if you get doubled against seraphon you're probably gonna lose haha.
 
I played some more games with the above list vs different armies including Seraphon. What do you think about dropping the Slann? I feel he didn't add enough on top of Kroak to skip more troops. Have you found him usefull? I will test a changed List:
(I first thought about skinkpriests, but they can only be ported in when it is too late for their Buffs.)

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Dracothion's Tail

Leaders
Lord Kroak (320)
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (140)

Battleline
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
10 x Skinks (60)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers

Units
3 x Salamander Hunting Pack (330)
3 x Salamander Hunting Pack (330)
2 x Salamander Hunting Pack (220)
5 x Chameleon Skinks (90)
5 x Chameleon Skinks (90)
5 x Chameleon Skinks (90)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Balewind Vortex (40)
Bound Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (70)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 116

(Whot do you think about this list? (I know i should not expose Kroak without a second Slann. ;) )
 
Lacking heroes, if you played places of arcane power for example its all over. I think its almost always having a starpriest or 2, maybe a starseer for some useful spell utility.
+1 or -1 save, -1 to hit aswell as skink lore spells. Things like this increase the potency of a unit like salamanders
 
In FoS i agree. But here most of the units arrive at the end of the movementphase, so there will be at least 1 turn without buffs.
 
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Bartuk said:
I played some more games with the above list vs different armies including Seraphon. What do you think about dropping the Slann? I feel he didn't add enough on top of Kroak to skip more troops. Have you found him usefull? I will test a changed List:
(I first thought about skinkpriests, but they can only be ported in when it is too late for their Buffs.)

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Dracothion's Tail

Leaders
Lord Kroak (320)
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (140)

Battleline
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
10 x Skinks (60)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers

Units
3 x Salamander Hunting Pack (330)
3 x Salamander Hunting Pack (330)
2 x Salamander Hunting Pack (220)
5 x Chameleon Skinks (90)
5 x Chameleon Skinks (90)
5 x Chameleon Skinks (90)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Balewind Vortex (40)
Bound Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (70)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 116

(Whot do you think about this list? (I know i should not expose Kroak without a second Slann. ;) )
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i get so much use out of my slann that i find it difficult not to take it. however my playstyle and yours might be different. i like your list without the slann, it worked well before they raised the price of salamanders. it seems scary.

Tav said:
Lacking heroes, if you played places of arcane power for example its all over. I think its almost always having a starpriest or 2, maybe a starseer for some useful spell utility.
+1 or -1 save, -1 to hit aswell as skink lore spells. Things like this increase the potency of a unit like salamanders
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It can be tricky. luckily we are really good at killing other heroes. I have adopted a denial strategy for this mission. kill all their heroes in the first couple turns while I lean on my slann general with godbeast pendant for my own scoring. hes won me a few games by teleporting onto objectives and not dying.

I am trying to stay away from the squishy heroes in this list. i feel like they are easy targets and a big part of my success against lumineth and ko is i dont have any easy targets to shoot. all my stuff is either expendable and a waste to shoot like skinks, hard to kill like slanns with support, or hidden in the sky.

Bartuk said:
In FoS i agree. But here most of the units arrive at the end of the movementphase, so there will be at least 1 turn without buffs.
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That is another part of why my DT list doesnt take buff heroes or units that need buffs to be good.
 
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Putzfrau said:
Just remember you dont' start scoring on PoAP until you finish a "move": within 3'' of the objective. Teleporting won't start giving you points until the next turn.
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oh i do, no worries :) It works best in missions wirh normal capture rules, but can still work out in PoAP too.
 
Jason839 said:
oh i do, no worries :) It works best in missions wirh normal capture rules, but can still work out in PoAP too.
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Yeah, kroak and slann with guard really help stack points on places of arcane power. Just so hard to shift.
 
Until now only DoK managed to kill him first turn. But the list won't be valid after the new tome. (LoS and cover used when available)
 
LizardWizard said:
Has 1 unit of Saurus Guard been enough to keep Kroak and Slann up vs DoT, LrL, and K.O?
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So far deploying far back and screening these armies out so that they cannot get within range to shoot kroak and slann has been pretty successful in negating a lot of the firepower these lists bring. The best part is I dont even lose tempo that much, regaining lost ground with summons, teleports, and deepstriked units.
 
Yeah, screening works wonders, but the potential for K.O, DoT or LRL double turn shooting makes bring 2 5x Guard to most of my games.
 
LizardWizard said:
Yeah, screening works wonders, but the potential for K.O, DoT or LRL double turn shooting makes bring 2 5x Guard to most of my games.
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I totally agree. I may end up that way as I keep getting reps in and the list keeps evolving. For now though, I haven't found it necessary yet.

Funny enough a lot of people take first turn against me. I think there is a bit of mind games involved in some of my wins against these opponents. A lot of people who play these armies are very aggressive alpha strike players. When my opponents see kroak, slann, bearer, 5 guard, and 3 10 man skink screens it makes my army feel a lot more fragile than it is and they pounce on a Turn 1 alpha strike chance. So Ive noticed they give me the 2nd turn a lot.
 
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