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AoS Tuning DT for expected new meta.

Jason839
Salamander

Jason839

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Hi everyone. Hope you have been well. Safe to say Tzeentch Flamer spam, KO, Gargants, and Teclis are expected to be a lot of my meta. So to fight this I'm putting aside the Fangs and Thunderquakes I've been using past few months and going back to Dracothian's Tail. I feel that ability to safeguard against the alpha through deepstrikes, combined with a strong magic core and high damage output of kroak + salamanders is the way to go. I've recently grown fond of kroxigor as well, and have started taking them in DT. I find them to be a Great unit to teleport in the backfield or to hold the center and free up the Sally's to go somewhere else.

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Dracothion's Tail
Lord Kroak (320)
- Spell: Stellar Tempest
- Ancient Knowledge Spell: Stellar Tempest
Slann Starmaster (260)
- General
- Command Trait: Ancient Knowledge
- Spell: Celestial Apotheosis
- Ancient Knowledge Spell: Celestial Equilibrium
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (140)
- Artefact: Godbeast Pendant
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
10 x Skinks (60)
- Meteoric Javelins Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Meteoric Javelins Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
3 x Salamander Hunting Pack (330)
3 x Salamander Hunting Pack (330)
6 x Kroxigor (280)
- 2x Moonhammers
Balewind Vortex (40)
Bound Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (70)
Malevolent Maelstrom (10)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 110
 
Tav said:
I really like double Slann Dracothians tail, you end up with some pretty strong summoning.
Click to expand...

I love summoning. Many opponents have spent the game complaining about having to spend their combats killing min units of skinks just to have me summon them again.

I also love the 2nd slann for the utility of spell swapping. I don't think enough people take advantage of this ability because they only take kroak. It has won me a few games dispelling all unbound endless spells or killing that artifact on their hero. It doesn't always come up but the option is nice.
 
Yeah for sure, and with all the bonuses to cast you can even use celestial apotheosis to get a pretty reliable D3 heal on a hero or something as well.

one of the best bargains for summoning for me is 20 warriors for 15. You can average that every 2 turns, teleport them off and go for a rerollable charge onto an objective
 
Taking this list to a tournament this coming weekend. Tweaked it a bit from the last version. I'm going with chameleons over the kroxigor this time, to hopefully kill teclis and fateweavers early. Had to drop a unit of Sally's to two for the points. Feels bad loosing a sally, but I'm sure the chameleon output will be worth it. Filled the extra points with bound swords to further the chaos matchups. New morathi scares the crap outta me but I don't have space for pendulum, so this will have to do.

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Dracothion's Tail
Slann Starmaster (260)
- General
- Command Trait: Ancient Knowledge
- Artefact: Godbeast Pendant
- Spell: Celestial Apotheosis
- Ancient Knowledge Spell: Celestial Equilibrium
Lord Kroak (320)
- Spell: Stellar Tempest
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (140)
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
10 x Skinks (60)
- Meteoric Javelins Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Meteoric Javelins Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
3 x Salamander Hunting Pack (330)
2 x Salamander Hunting Pack (220)
20 x Chameleon Skinks (360)
Balewind Vortex (40)
Bound Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (70)
Bound Quicksilver Swords (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 100
 
its nice. i think personally i would like to start with a few more bodies on the board.
have 2 x 2 sallies, leave the swords behind and have another 20 skinks
 
Tav said:
its nice. i think personally i would like to start with a few more bodies on the board.
have 2 x 2 sallies, leave the swords behind and have another 20 skinks
Click to expand...

That's a good suggestion, I may end up doing that.
 
Ended up going 1x10 man chameleon and 2x3 man salamanders. Worked out in the end and took 3rd. 1 loss was to fireslayers. Those darn dwarves and their saves. lol.

Edit: Added list in case others wanted to see latest version

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Dracothion's Tail
Slann Starmaster (260)
- General
- Command Trait: Ancient Knowledge
- Artefact: Godbeast Pendant
- Spell: Celestial Apotheosis
- Ancient Knowledge Spell: Celestial Equilibrium
Lord Kroak (320)
- Spell: Stellar Tempest
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (140)
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
10 x Skinks (60)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
3 x Salamander Hunting Pack (330)
3 x Salamander Hunting Pack (330)
10 x Chameleon Skinks (180)
Balewind Vortex (40)
Bound Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (70)
Purple Sun of Shyish (50)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 106
 
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I am trying this list at the moment. Going to face KO next. (Alphastrike 1Ironclad, 2 gunhauler, endrinrigger, vortex, heroes).
What would you place on the board?
Do you think kroak can survive the alphastrike?
Drop something for 5 more guards?

Allegiance: Seraphon - Constellation: Dracothion's Tail
Leaders
Lord Kroak (320)
Slann Starmaster (260)
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (140)

Battleline
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
10 x Skinks (60)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers

Units
3 x Salamander Hunting Pack (330)
3 x Salamander Hunting Pack (330)
5 x Chameleon Skinks (90)
5 x Chameleon Skinks (90)
5 x Chameleon Skinks (90)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Balewind Vortex (40)
Bound Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (70)
Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 101
 
Bartuk said:
I am trying this list at the moment. Going to face KO next. (Alphastrike 1Ironclad, 2 gunhauler, endrinrigger, vortex, heroes).
What would you place on the board?
Do you think kroak can survive the alphastrike?
Drop something for 5 more guards?

Allegiance: Seraphon - Constellation: Dracothion's Tail
Leaders
Lord Kroak (320)
Slann Starmaster (260)
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (140)

Battleline
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
10 x Skinks (60)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers

Units
3 x Salamander Hunting Pack (330)
3 x Salamander Hunting Pack (330)
5 x Chameleon Skinks (90)
5 x Chameleon Skinks (90)
5 x Chameleon Skinks (90)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Balewind Vortex (40)
Bound Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (70)
Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 101
Click to expand...

If it was me id swap a unit of chameleons for a unit of normal skinks. You will need them for screening. Then you will 50pts for a 3rd spell or command point if you prefer those.

The hard part about that matchup is things are gonna die. You cant stop them from shooting at you. What you can do is stop them from shooting your important things. Salamanders are the best thing we have to kill ships. They are the key to this game, not Kroak, so protecting them is the important thing. You need to focus the ships down 1 at a time otherwise they will fly away from you and thats bad. So what I do is i keep the 2 units of salamanders and the chameleons off the table and deploy everything else. Kroak and slann on are the back edge of the board. Bearer inbetween them. Guard in front of them just barely within 3 inches.13 inches around the guard is a semi circle of 3 units of skinks. This puts any ships that land in front of skinks 25 inches away from the bearer. Bearer is the weakest of the heroes and easiest to snipe. it sucks to lose him too so smart ko will shoot him first to get rid of his buffs. Now they can try to alpha the slanns, but probably wont have range with all the guns and wont be able to do enough focused shots to deal with them in 1 turn. So most ko players will either give me first turn or they will play cautiously, grab objectives, and just shoot skinks. you want this as your opponent spent 200+points to kill 60pts. Then on your turn you move forward, summon more skinks to keep the screens, and grab objectives If you have the chance summon salamanders to kill frigates, but dont overcommit. If its not a sure thing wait. It will be a long 5 turn game, so the important thing is remember your screens to block out ranges, then focus down the ships if possible. Once the ships are down you can deal with the slow dwarves. Also try not to let your stuff bunch up too much. Yo dont want them to get a good chance to spell in a bottle out a spell on too many targets.

Chameleons can be tricky. If they give you first turn you can try to do some wounds on the ships so they cant fly, or you can try to snipe the heroes. It really depends on how they deploy. Sometimes Ill sacrifice them by grabbing an open objective for the points and making them commit something to killing with them. If you go second and have a chance to kill a ship or 2, I would use them for that. They probably cant do it on their own, but they do a great job helping sallys finish the job

*note* the range on the screens might not be right, but i think thats the way to do it. Im exhausted and cant think and numbers arent my things right now. i hope the main point came across though lol The important thing is you want your screens to make it so they are 25 inches from the important stuff to negate most of their 24 inch shooting. But you dont want to leave a gap where they can land 9 inches inside your screen. so make sure the guard and the skinks can screen out 18 inches from the slanns and bearer.
 
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Thank you for your elaborated answer! I agree with what you said absolutely. I am glad the Slanns have a tiny base. Played KO two days ago with my lrl and Teclis is just a pain to screen. (If he deploys back far enough i can screen 24" vs fligh high due to him having to set up 9" away from me.)

As i don't like including three endless spells for two casters i am thinking about changing: +3 aetherwings + 10 skinks and - 5 chameleon skinks. Do you think the additional flying screen will be helpfull?

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Dracothion's Tail
Slann Starmaster (260)
- General
- Command Trait: Ancient Knowledge
- Artefact: Godbeast Pendant
- Spell: Celestial Equilibrium
- Ancient Knowledge Spell: Mystical Unforging
Lord Kroak (320)
- Spell: Stellar Tempest
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (140)
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
10 x Skinks (60)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
3 x Salamander Hunting Pack (330)
3 x Salamander Hunting Pack (330)
5 x Chameleon Skinks (90)
5 x Chameleon Skinks (90)
3 x Aetherwings (40)
- Allies
Balewind Vortex (40)
Bound Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (70)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 40 / 400
Wounds: 112
 
Last edited:
Bartuk said:
Thank you for your elaborated answer! I agree with what you said absolutely. I am glad the Slanns have a tiny base. Played KO two days ago with my lrl and Teclis is just a pain to screen. (If he deploys back far enough i can screen 24" vs fligh high due to him having to set up 9" away from me.)

As i don't like including three endless spells for two casters i am thinking about changing: +3 aetherwings + 10 skinks and - 5 chameleon skinks. Do you think the additional flying screen will be helpfull?

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Dracothion's Tail
Slann Starmaster (260)
- General
- Command Trait: Ancient Knowledge
- Artefact: Godbeast Pendant
- Spell: Celestial Equilibrium
- Ancient Knowledge Spell: Mystical Unforging
Lord Kroak (320)
- Spell: Stellar Tempest
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (140)
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
10 x Skinks (60)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
3 x Salamander Hunting Pack (330)
3 x Salamander Hunting Pack (330)
5 x Chameleon Skinks (90)
5 x Chameleon Skinks (90)
3 x Aetherwings (40)
- Allies
Balewind Vortex (40)
Bound Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (70)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 40 / 400
Wounds: 112
Click to expand...

I am not sure what Aetherwings are going to help you out with. Aetherwings are great in armies that struggle with screens already (like KO or dwarf cities lists) or when combined with raptors to do their anti-charge shenanigans. I think a command point or another endless spell would be infinitely more helpful.
 
Putzfrau said:
I am not sure what Aetherwings are going to help you out with. Aetherwings are great in armies that struggle with screens already (like KO or dwarf cities lists) or when combined with raptors to do their anti-charge shenanigans. I think a command point or another endless spell would be infinitely more helpful.
Click to expand...

I am not sure either. I just struggle to find a better alternative. A command point seems overkill with double Slann. (If the oponent goes first i may need one but i am not sure how usefull the point will be.) An endless Spell may be ok but i am on two casters and have two spells included. What Spell would you prefer? (And why? :) )

I can see purple sun used by Jason839 but i am not sure if ir is worth the investment for the unbound spell.
 
Bartuk said:
I am not sure either. I just struggle to find a better alternative. A command point seems overkill with double Slann. (If the oponent goes first i may need one but i am not sure how usefull the point will be.) An endless Spell may be ok but i am on two casters and have two spells included. What Spell would you prefer? (And why? :) )

I can see purple sun used by Jason839 but i am not sure if ir is worth the investment for the unbound spell.
Click to expand...


I like to use my third spell slot as an anti-meta tech choice. If I expect hordes or multi wound spam I take purple sun. If I expect a lot of chaos, I'd take quicksilver swords. If I expect a lot of shooting, I take prismatic palisade. That sort of thing. I like the realm bonuses for these kinds of spells. Being unbound isn't as big a deal for this list, as I have a slann that can give up a spell to dispel it.
 
Bartuk said:
I am not sure either. I just struggle to find a better alternative. A command point seems overkill with double Slann. (If the oponent goes first i may need one but i am not sure how usefull the point will be.) An endless Spell may be ok but i am on two casters and have two spells included. What Spell would you prefer? (And why? :) )

I can see purple sun used by Jason839 but i am not sure if it is worth the investment for the unbound spell.
Click to expand...

I'd use swords honestly. Long range, decent damage, good movement. Could go with Jaws as well just for the big base, its useful for blocking movement. Not great against KO cause they dont really care about stuff like that but it has uses.

I just don't think aetherwings add anything to this list unless you want to strip some stuff out, add more aetherwings and a unit of raptors.
 
Had a game vs KO today. I double turned and he conceded after turn 3.
- the screen worked. He killed only 180 points of skinks in his first turn.
- I only casted balewind (long ranges of KO were the main factor)
- Sallys and Chameleon porting everywhere let him struggle to pressure where he wanted.
- the KO ship healing is very strong.

Next stop: CoS Irondrakes+bridge
 
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