8th Ed. Trying to beat Beastmen 2k pt

[kibanas]

so i got into Warhammer almost a year ago, just playing casually vs my friend. I chose lizardmen and he chose beastmen, we've battled many times and every time he kicks my ass. its super annoying and i cant find a thread anywhere that can tell me how to beat him. so i figured id post here and see if you guys can help me out with what im doing wrong.

I'm building to a 3k pt army but atm I'm stuck at 2k pts. here's my most recent lineup.

2kpt army

slann life
mystery, rumination, higher state, becalming

choto, glyph necklace, Itxi grub (for those oh shit moments)

500pts

Scar-Vet
Armor of Destiny
Greatweapon
Crown of Command

126pts

Skink Priest lvl 2: dispel scroll, cloak of feathers

150pts

Skink Priest lvl 2: Feedback Scroll, mounted on stegadon

125pts

Stegadon: Giant Bow, (skink priest mounted)

235pts

Temple guard x16
music and standard
halberds

Saurus x29
music, standard
spears x27
shields
(Scar vet embedded)

Skink skirmisher x10
blowpipes

Skink Skirmisher x10
blowpipes

Skink Skirmisher x10
blowpipes



I also have models for an additional scar vet, 20 coldone calvalry and a Kroq Gar, (which i bought before i found out how much calvalry blow in 8th edition) and i ordered another slann(which i plan to use for light lore) and 2 salamanders.

the army im fighting generally consists of 6 minotaurs with a doombull, 10 beastigors, a great bray shaman(beast) a bray shaman (shadow or death) a Wargol which he constantly buffs, and a big block of gors for cannon fodder. oh and a cygor which is super annoying

our usual battle goes something like this, him charging straight at me, me harassing with skinks, skinks being charged and dying at the hands of angry Minotaurs, close combat between me and his blocks slightly favors him since he strikes first... fucking low initiative. and him constantly trying to cast pit or purple sun across my battle line... fucking low initiative.

his cygor makes quick work of my skinks so i cant get much use out of them and with him constantly trying to plop a sun down in the middle of my army i feel pressure to spread out and avoid the solid battle line i would otherwise prefer.

Beastmen's high strength makes dwellers less affective than i would like and the most devastating spell i have tends to be commet (assuming i can get it to land)

I'm going to try light lore because of the initiative buff and Pha's protection

I'm not limited to any tournament rules, i just want to kick my buddy's ass for once. his latest lineup is replacing his minotaurs with more beastigors so i think i have a shot.

any advice or criticizm is welcome, what im doing obviously isnt working, so bring it on. also any advice for what to get for a 3k army to beat him would be great too.

p.s. i do know im supposed to kite the minotaurs but i can never get it to work...

 

[Stonecutter]

I think with a few minor changes and a good battle plan you should be able to get the better of the beastmen. Beastmen have almost no armour and low leadership so those weaknesses must be exploited. The biggest problem IMHO is that far too many points are being invested in characters without a plan for what they are going to do and how they will do it. By bringing some focus to the characters, it will free up points as well as making them more effective. Here is what I would suggest (and the reasons why):

1) Slaan - already has a 4+ ward and is in the 2nd rank of TG so higher state, choco?? & glyph necklace are really not useful. I would suggest dropping HS (possibly replace with soul of stone) and go with diadem of power vice grubs - it can really help nerf your opponent's magic phase every turn. For a banner, you might try plaque of dominion if your opponent doesn't have a BSB or simply go with a cheap +1 LD banner.

2) skink priest - There is no need for more than one priest - the slaan should be using all the dice since he gets a free one with every casting. At most, a level 2 scroll caddy is ample so drop the 2nd one with the steggie and the other can go with the cube of darkness if he drops the cloak of feathers. Since he will be staying out of the way far from combat, he doesn't need it anyhow.

3) Scar Vet - A mounted cowboy is really needed to provide mobility and hitting power - not to mention the fact that the current build is over the 50 point limit for magic items. Charm shield, sword of might, dawnstone & cold one will make him excellent at killing enemy characters or pinning the minotaurs if they are not using great weapons and are hence only S5.

4) Core troops - Keep the saurus in steadfast formation (frontage of 5 and 6 ranks deep) and on either flank of the slaan/TG. With LD 9 or 10 on 3 dice and a re-roll, they are definitely going to hold in there against beastmen and the TG can then counter-charge and lay some real hurt on them with S5 attacks.

5) special - 2 units of 6-8 chameleons would give the army a lot of flexibility and the cygor would be dead by turn 2 (chameleons can march and double shoot and still retain poison at long range). Also, beefing up the TG to 25 would be helpful as you are invariably going to take casualties.

6) Rare - Twin sallie pack (or 2 units of 1) do well against big blocks of gors/bestigors as even a single wound will cause a panic check.

Tactics:

Keep the main blocks together in the center and make maximum use of magic and shooting dominance by sending shooting troops around the flanks. Delay combat as long as possible until the minos and bestigors have been whittled down. The skinks can be used to cut down the minotaurs. With skirmish & 12" move, they should be able to avoid the charge arc and pelt them with poison. If necessary, use a bait unit to force a charge and then flee. This will delay the minos a turn and allow your other 2 units (perhaps with the freed up chameleons) to cut the unit down to 3 or fewer models.

As combat draws near, the scar vet cowboy can charge out to assassinate an enemy wizard or BSB or simply to pin a unit in place. If kept within 12" of the slaan, LD 9 or 10 with a re-roll will keep him in the game for a long time as he slowly grinds through the beast characters. While the unit is pinned, the saurus can move to get a flanking charge while the TG go for a frontal.

Magic - Life is a great defensive lore so don't go crazy trying to get dwellers off. Try using the buffs where they are needed first to draw out dispel dice and then only go for the dwellers if the target is too rich to ignore and it will force the use of a scroll or can no longer be stopped with dice. With light, use a similar approach by tossing out the magic missiles (focus on minotaurs), hitting the wizards unit with net of amtok and then casting an area pha's protection or speed of light. On magic defence, only stop the spells that are critical to stop that turn and focus on preventing purple sun by stealing those 6s. Between becalming, cube of darkness and the diadem, there should be minimal beast magic of note happening.

Hope this helps. Good luck and good hunting!!

 

[david l]

Just about everything I was going to say was just said by Stonecutter. I would add that the baby stegadon is particularly inefficient against Beastmen, who have lots of T4. The giant bow hits so rarely it is rarely worth shooting.
With Becalming and a scroll, why is Pit/Purple Sun a threat? It should never go off.

 

[kibanas]

so your saying drop the stegadon completely? that's kinda a bummer considering what a pain he was to paint lol. ok cool, moving on.

couple more questions.

1. i like the idea of a "cowboy" scar vet and have rebuilt my list to include one. my other alternative was to substitute the scar vet for "Gor- Rok" 215 pts but gets 4+ scaly, stuborn, resiliant, shield of aeons (always conts as defending an object), and Mace of Ulamak (reroll failed hits in first round of combat).
I wanted to use him to nullify the charge bonus that i inevitably run into against beastmen by imbedding him into my saurus block, this would also prevent breaking since he tends to do waaaaay more wounds and usually ends up with a ridiculous combat resolution. and since he usually has more ranks than me, i rarely get steadfast. mace and resilience would also be helpfull when his beastlord calls a challenge.

2. I heard or read somewhere that breath weapons can only be fired once a game. is that true? do salamanders really only get one flame spout per game? and if so are they really worth using?

3. any advice for a 3k pt army, besides whats already been said?

 

[twistedmagpie]

Hi,

I know this was a few months ago. However I'm about to play beastmen tonight and was looking for some tactical help.

I don't know if you're still struggling with them or not but from reading through the thread I'd like to point out that vortex' start at the feet of the caster and move in the nominated direction so he shouldn't be getting it from on end of your line and through your ranks.

The other thing I'd point out is that the Lore of Death allows you Spirit Leach which is amazing against low leadership armies, you can take out his BSB and characters with relative ease. With the new book you can ge it through Wandering Deliberations.

Oh and I don't think the Slamanders attack counts as a usual breath weapon, it can be used each turn.

 

[Stonecutter]

Looking back at my earlier post, most of what worked in the old book would remain valid. Changes in fighting with the new book would be as follows:

1) Slaan - Having a 2nd level beast priest works really well with spamming wyssan's so either WD or high magic with the aim of changing out for wyssans/miasma/spirit leech as early as possible. Standard kit out with channel staff, harmonic convergence and whatever else you find works.

2) Heroes - SV cowboy as is and a 2nd level beast priest with scroll.

3) Skinks - javelin & shield for the skirmishers.

4) Special - this is one area where I would seriously consider rippers rather than chameleons. Tossing them in on a suicide run on a toad rage unit with the wizards could really pay big dividends, especially if you can get a buff like wyssans and/or hand of glory on them.

5) Rare - since sallies are now MB, they are even more effective at killing off chaff units and the template will cause more wounds now that it is S4. However, with the absence of cannons, an ancient steg with sharpened horns could completely wreck any of the beastmen multi-wound units like minos, chariots, cygor, etc. Toss in the S6 stomp vs the infantry and I think an ancient steg would be a major boost - all at a new, lower price than ever before!!