Tutorial Troglodon: This is why its great

[eppe]

It's not so much that the Troglodon is bad... there are just other units in our book that fill it's potential role better. Most people are going to take 2 Skink Priests for Dispel/Cube and with the option for Beasts they are even more useful. Even if you don't take 2 Priests, I still think you'll take atleast 1.

Other units are better at ranged and CC than the Troglodon.

If I could use the Trogolodon's roar every turn then I would say it had a useful utility role. I'm not spending that amount of points on essentially 1 round 2 or 3 extra hits. I'd rather just spend that extra points on a Scar Vet or more Saurus.

 

[borkbork]

Now, i cant really judge for my self if the troglo is good or not. I haven't seen the book yet and my lizzy experience is rather limited. But this discussion is exactly why Jeremy Vettock is such a good book writer, because behind everything is an idea and even things that seem lousy on paper always seems to fit a role, although it may take some time to figure that role out.

The O&G book (also by vettock) is now 2 years old (roughly) and people still come up with new lists and fighting methods that seem to work, and quite a few experienced player are moving away from the apparant no-brainer (savage horde with head), because other things are way more interesting to play and surprisingly not less viable.

Anyway with Vettocks books you just dont put powerfull units together, his books are about synergy and balance. (although off course he also occasionally cocks up some things), and in quite some occasions it is actually the units that are lousy on paper that bring the balance in an army and make it way more powerfull than you would expect.

and besides....the troglo is a seriously cool model.

 

[Reddogfish]

The trog isn't a bad unit on paper. It's just not good in real life. It's sole purpose is to give a channel attempt, eyes for a slann and provide a once off +1 to pf to units in the nearby vicinity. If they made it 100 or even 130 pts. Maybe it could be justified. But there is no instance where he would be of more use than equal points of ANY other unit.

For almost the same points you can take a priest and a basti. For spell channel and support as well as combat effect.

Or a basti or priest and skink skirm unit.

All of these options provide more wounds. More spells. More combat. More shooting and more support.

 

[eppe]

The trog isn't a bad unit on paper. It's just not good in real life. It's sole purpose is to give a channel attempt, eyes for a slann and provide a once off +1 to pf to units in the nearby vicinity. If they made it 100 or even 130 pts. Maybe it could be justified. But there is no instance where he would be of more use than equal points of ANY other unit.

For almost the same points you can take a priest and a basti. For spell channel and support as well as combat effect.

Or a basti or priest and skink skirm unit.

All of these options provide more wounds. More spells. More combat. More shooting and more support.

That's where I agree 100%. Is it a terrible unit? No. It just isn't worth it's current points.

 

[rothgar13]

So you would posit that it is overpriced, not useless? I disagree - I think it's underpowered, and should have abilities that merit its points cost. Constant PF(5+) in an aura would be a start, as well as some slightly less-than-abysmal combat stats.

 

[JamJar]

Since the Skink oracle is looking for lost artifacts of The Old Ones, it would make sense for hime to have a ward save somehow

maybe the diving rod upgrade should also gives him a ward save

 

[eppe]

So you would posit that it is overpriced, not useless? I disagree - I think it's underpowered, and should have abilities that merit its points cost. Constant PF(5+) in an aura would be a start, as well as some slightly less-than-abysmal combat stats.

It becomes useless when we have other models that fill it's roll for less. I can't think of a situation where I would bring it other than to specifically bring it just because I thought the model looked cool.

 

[Lizardmatt]

So you would posit that it is overpriced, not useless? I disagree - I think it's underpowered, and should have abilities that merit its points cost. Constant PF(5+) in an aura would be a start, as well as some slightly less-than-abysmal combat stats.

It becomes useless when we have other models that fill it's roll for less. I can't think of a situation where I would bring it other than to specifically bring it just because I thought the model looked cool.

Cool models can get play without using their rules. It doesn't take much converting to pass off the Trog as a Carnisaur.

-Matt

 

[Reddogfish]

That isnt really the point... otherwise they shouldnt have bothered using that book space to put its rules in there.

 

[lizardmek]

the thing is for the same points you could get 2 scar vets on coldones they can kick out 8 S5 attacks and 4 S4 attacks and i think even naked the scarvets would outperform a trog

 

[GCPD]

The O&G book (also by vettock) is now 2 years old (roughly) and people still come up with new lists and fighting methods that seem to work, and quite a few experienced player are moving away from the apparant no-brainer (savage horde with head), because other things are way more interesting to play and surprisingly not less viable.

The O&G book also has a greater number of units in it than the Lizardmen one. Some 4 times as many Core choices, for instance. Arguably, the reason those players are still able to come up with new things is the number of entries in the roster; not mere innovation with what they have.

The problem with the Lizardman book is that there are so few options in the roster, that the bad ones (Troglodons, Razordons) really stand out.

 

[Rango]

Troglodon really looks overpriced, especially considering that he is mostly supporting the army
As such it will rarely be my top 5 choice

That said however, the variety of support features is great and one can easily find many good uses to Troglodon:
1. Not so vulnerable, terror causing, thunderstomping Arcane Vassal
2. He's got moves like Jaggerosaurus, with 14" march range effectively extending the Arcane Vassal range
3. TheRoar that can help you turn the favor of the most important battle
4. Moderate shooting attack
5. Extra channels are always welcome
6. Decent bodyguard for the Ethereal Slann. (if I was an ethereal frog, I would not mind the terror causing venom spitting dino as a pet)

Ofc, the model looks awesome on the table as well and will wow the audience

I will definitely give this chap a chance and update you on the results

 

[Soteks Prophet]

If there was a shaman or a skink chief on top it might be better.

That said it's often the way with new units - basically everyone who buys one will make the carnosaur since it's awesome and can be taken as hero and lord. Then next book the carno will either get nerfed or more likely the troglodon will get a buff meaning that people who want it need to go out and get a new £50 kit (probably £60 by then lol!)

I do just wish that the 'oracle' was a chieftain, with the channeling power and maybe a 25pts allowance. Possibly even counting as a 'level 0' shaman so he could take arcane items. Just for fluff factor. As it stands 1 ws2 s3 attack is a bit meh

 

[Dreyer]

Now, i cant really judge for my self if the troglo is good or not. I haven't seen the book yet and my lizzy experience is rather limited. But this discussion is exactly why Jeremy Vettock is such a good book writer, because behind everything is an idea and even things that seem lousy on paper always seems to fit a role, although it may take some time to figure that role out.

The O&G book (also by vettock) is now 2 years old (roughly) and people still come up with new lists and fighting methods that seem to work, and quite a few experienced player are moving away from the apparant no-brainer (savage horde with head), because other things are way more interesting to play and surprisingly not less viable.

Anyway with Vettocks books you just dont put powerfull units together, his books are about synergy and balance. (although off course he also occasionally cocks up some things), and in quite some occasions it is actually the units that are lousy on paper that bring the balance in an army and make it way more powerfull than you would expect.

and besides....the troglo is a seriously cool model.

Oh hi Jeremy Vetock, what are you doing here on Lustria online?