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8th Ed. Troglodon of Death

Ondjage
Razordon

Ondjage

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My impression is that everyone hates the troglodon, so here is my idea.

The troglodon is the FASTEST arcane vassal, and it is fairly beefy. (I do realise that a skink priest with wings are faster, but they are squishy)

How about combining the troglodon with a death slann, to take out characters in the early game? Many of the spells in the lore of death are cheap range 12 spells that can pick out characters. (Spirit leech, The caress of laniph and The fate of bjuna)

This could be combined with Tetto'ekkos vanguard ability and/or the standard of discipline (10 LD for spirit leech) for added profit.

What do you all think?
 
That works great with a skink priest. 20mm base size and flight lets him land behind/between enemy units.
Not so much with the Trog.

-Matt
 
Is the Troglodon really that bad? How about getting it into the middle of everything and start pumping out Kroak's deliverance of itza?
 
Flying skink moves 20" in the first turn, bam.

Trog only moves 12, so unless you're running tetto, a slan and a Trog...

Better to take the flying suicidal skink of awesome, since both options will be flattened by e end of turn 2
 
Doesn't the Trog move 7? So it would be a 14" march move.

Trog can withstand more Miscasts than a regular Skink can due to the higher Wounds and Toughness.

Trog causes Terror. Good synergy with Doom and Darkness.

Trog would be good against the flank of some good ol' rank and file. S3 T3 attacks it can likely survive for a round or two. Plus you get Thunderstomp. Couple that with Soulblight and you're in business.


The priest would be cheaper though. That's the best counter-argument.
 
Eh, a Trog is not going to survive sitting 10" in front of your enemies battle line for a turn, and using him as a vassal seems pointless given that you can bung him in a bunker of 15 skinks for the same points..

You get a priest in there, you do as much damage as you can and he (probably) dies, no point spending 150 points to get him there.

It's a cool model, but sorely lacking.
 
I'm going to have to go with Qupakoco on this one. I like the lore of Death. I am looking for an excuse to field a Troglodon, and I tend to run very heavy on Saurus Warriors so that will give me at least one good round of predatory fighting.
 
As I've never used a troglodon I think this guy is more suited to support Saurus Blocks.

Reading the army book you can realize that we have a lot of nasty combinations. That can easily fielded with great chance of success as they arent roll dependent (like spells).

Think about a main line draw as follow.

- Bastiladon (chotec) holding left side of the main line.
- Templeguard Deathstar (razor standard and maybe skavenpelt) + oldblood inside
- 2 unit of 2x swarm deployed in 1 colum/2 ranks between your combat blocks
- Troglodon behind the swarms
- Saurus warriors with Scarvet w/ crown of command
- Bastiladon (chotec) holding the right side of the main line.

This book is clearly more close combat oriented design and they gave some nasty combos. And for that reason skink priest are allowed to take beast (not for background purpose, its for sinergy of this kind of play).

So the rest of your army may have some light supports / chaff and some magic support.

You can include a nearly naked slann with lore of beast to properly buff your main line. Or light. Once you reach the combat, you annihilate everything.

Maybe in turn 1 your magic phase is useless (or maybe you got 2 IF beam of chotec who knows). but in turn 2 and so on the enemy player will be taking care about your buffs on your units than dispelling your beams.

Also you can not engage troglodon and act as arcane vassal for your dmg spells and keep a threat for the incoming enemy units to deal with. (your enemy may get intimidate by the awesome look of the model).

What is more important, your monsters are dispossable (as you dont expect much of them in combat), they are meant to die while your main blocks has to reach unharmed to the close combat the sooner you can (in turn 2).


I think i have not to say the outcome of the combo.
 
As a hypothetical, what about using the Troglodon in a list that makes heavy use of mounted Scar-vets? In theory, by using the Troglodon in place of a Skink Priest for the Slann's Arcane Oracle one both frees up hero points for the Scar-Vets while also adding another unit with a similar defensive profile to the Cold One-riding Vets for more target saturation.
 
If your packing a slaan in temple guard, and keeping the Trog close enough to get the bonus to predatory, he's not really acting like a good vassal.

The predatory bonus looks great on paper; but the reality is far from it.
6 wide, temple guard/saurus are getting 2 extra attacks normally, 4 with the 1/game trog.
Then you roll to hit with those extra attacks and you're getting 1 extra hit, 2 extra on the once a game roar.
2 Freak'n hits.

The only way the trog will be remotely useful is if Predatory Fighter gets a FAQ that lets it work with supporting attacks. Then you're looking at a spear saurus blocking getting 4 extra attack, 8 on the once a game thing. 4 extra S4 hits, on 2 blocks, might be worthwhile.

The biggest problem is you need to get a little lucky on your rolls to hit, but you have to commit to using the power ahead of time.
 
Its not about the unit benefit. Who also get boosted.

You are not going to waste the troglodon roar in the first chance you could. You will use it when your scarvet or oldblood is taking the epic fight against the uber foes of the enemy army.

On that phase if it is your turn, you will try to bring a bubble savage beast of horros, and a wyssans wildform to the combat blocks. Then you are facing the win or lose situation. And the roar gives you a more power to turn the odds in your favour.

I see a lot of potential to a 8/9/10 attacks oldblood with S8/9/10 that generates extra attacks on 5's 6's
(additional hand weapon or frenzied, or both) (halberd, great weapon or wyssans) and a Scarvet is equal but with one less attack. And of course you can also challenge with your slann in order (if bubble savage beast 4 attacks with S6) to get your oldblood right on the carnage. Sounds good? now you add the unit performance.

So if you have combo charge with swarms, all of those attacks are poisoned. The 1 column 2 ranks formation will guarantee their survavility at least for a round.

For the Troglodon vassal you can keep casting even when your slann is engaged (main role of your deathstar), or enemy chaff who have crossed your flanks and is out of sight for the Slann front arc.


Whatever this combo could still work without a Trog, just keep in mind he can be a game winner if set up right. Also its can add some wounds due to thunderstomp.
 
Oh, ok.
So all you need to do is,
1) roll up wild form and savage beast for spells;
2) get into an epic fight with your oppoen
3) Successfully cast Savage Beast and Wildform
4) Have the Trog survive to this point in the game, and be in range of said epic fight
5) Then it's a simple matter of actually rolling 5's and 6's, to generate more attacks that hit on 4's.
I'm thinking this is an exceptionally complicated plan, that isn't all that hard for your opponent to counter.

It reminds me of an old roommate of mine, that would build magic the gathering decks with a 200+ cards; but man, if he every drew the exact right combo of 8 cards, he's be set! And, it never happened.

-Matt
 
^^ Those are the best kinds of decks.

I was thinking it's spit attack might work well with the Soulblight combo as well. S5 and D3 wounds would be decent against a wounded Monster or a small unit of Monstrous Cav. More so against a lone wizard. Then again if a lone wizard has nothing between him and a Troglodon than he's probably got a bigger issue than just being spit on.

Seems to me that the Trog is just a model we have that has "potential" to be good, like what Lizardmatt pointed out. Overall it's just sorta sub-par in most cases. Potential to be good in CC if buffed, potential to be a good Vassal, potential to make your Saurus better, potential to be a good flanker, etc...

...and it cuts into your Salamander points...
 
Magic is random (and you build your magic to buff and win the battle in combat, so you go 6 dice if needed), the rest of the combo i mentioned above are passive or active rule. So it will work most cases.

Back to the troglodon.

-Arcane Vassal: T5 W4 AS4+. Not spending hero points. it have twice Toughness and Wounds of Skink Priest. So in this role is better than a hero. (but warmachines :S)
- Shooting: Low BS = fail. Anyway you can try to finish wounded chariots , MC , MI, Monster. Just see it as an additional attemp. It can be buffed with Hand of Glory to make him able to hit on your shoot phase and a possible Stand & Shoot reaction.
- Flank Holding: Terror, Arcane Vassal, Shooting, Thunderstomp, medium combat profile.Even if it doesn't shine as any monster should do, it still be a threat to take care.
- Combat: Same use as Salamander/Razordon in combat. Engage vs low number of b2b miniatures and bring the thunderstomp.
- Roar: This rule can be game winner. I think is understimated for most of the Lizarmen player.

So Troglodon is not useless. Just below our other rare options. When I should use it?
- Slann WD with no skink priest list. (Scarvet and chievs)
- Combat focused army with solid blocks empowered with saurus heros/lords.
 
Back to the troglodon.

-Arcane Vassal: T5 W4 AS4+. Not spending hero points. it have twice Toughness and Wounds of Skink Priest. So in this role is better than a hero. (but warmachines :S)
Harder to hide than a priest, not as fast, can't get a look out sir. Costs 4times as much, very competative slot, twice the T and W of a skink is still naff.

- Shooting: Low BS = fail. Anyway you can try to finish wounded chariots , MC , MI, Monster. Just see it as an additional attemp. It can be buffed with Hand of Glory to make him able to hit on your shoot phase and a possible Stand & Shoot reaction.
Meh, true enough, but I'd rather take a priest and a lazordon, or a steg.

- Flank Holding: Terror, Arcane Vassal, Shooting, Thunderstomp, medium combat profile.Even if it doesn't shine as any monster should do, it still be a threat to take care.
Meh, for the points I'd spend a little more to take an steg, better magic(if ancient with alignment) better combat, better survivable, better shooting(if not ancient with burning)

- Combat: Same use as Salamander/Razordon in combat. Engage vs low number of b2b miniatures and bring the thunderstomp.
Again, nothing a steg doesn't do better, much, much better. Hells, a lazordon does it better!

- Roar: This rule can be game winner. I think is understimated for most of the Lizarmen player.
Possibly, but it's use is mostly dependant on a FAQ we don't have yet. I'd rather have the +I or invul save.

So Troglodon is not useless. Just below our other rare options. When I should use it?
- Slann WD with no skink priest list. (Scarvet and chievs)
If you're taking a slan and one arcane vassal. You're guaranteeing it's death, immediately. Especially if you're playing defensively with the slan.

- Combat focused army with solid blocks empowered with saurus heros/lords.
I'd rather take the points to take a skink priest, you know, unless you're taking no magic at all
Even then, I'd take a few lazordons to cover the lack of caster lord.


TLDR,
Do you really like the model?
Play it!
 
IMO hero points are less valuable than rare so i consider it to be a - that it is in rare and not in heroes section. Sure cowboys are awesome but how many do you need? I would not run more than 2, leaving plenty of points for a skink priest or even 2. While with the high number of mounstres cav in the current meta, the extra strength for only 15 points on the stegadon is invaluable, not to mention what i consider to be the best unit in the book, the salamanders.
 
Also for the price of a frog you can get 2 priests one with flying cape and the other with a magic carpet terror is only good if you charge and if you close you will be getting in to combat where you don't want to be if you want to cast though the frog
 
The Trog is more like a light version of a Priest on a Steg, :shifty:
 
Am I the only one thinking it should've been a 150pts special unit and get a buff to its super lame shooting attacks. Maybe BS4 which means that along with "quick to fire" it would be able to hit on 4+ after having moved. It's not much, but it would mean that the S5 multiple wounds with poison would be to some use for hunting larger targets. Oh, yeah, maybe up the range a bit?

Or well that's what I think. At the very least it would put the trog in the same price range as the bastiladon, same amount of attacks, better strenght, same toughness, worse AS. Shooting vs whatever you decide with the bastiladon.

Yeah for the same price as the bastiladon I actually think it would be a funny unit. Not great, but somewhat as good as the bastiladon, which isn't a great unit by itself, but IMO a unit I like to take with me regardless.

Damn you GW :(
 
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