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8th Ed. Tricksters Helm - An overlooked item?

Mr Phat
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Mr Phat

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As I am working on a triple OB list for a small 1 day ETC tourney, I was looking through the BRB items for my 3rd build.

That was when I came across this gem:

"
TRICKSTER'S HELM
The wearer counts his armour save as being one point higher than normal. Any successful roll to wound made against the wearer of the Trickster's Helm must be re-rolled."
"

I do get why it rarely see use: its not as good as other item combinations.
But as a base T5 is rather good, and in most cases hard to wound, I would like to make a point about this item:

it says "ANY successful roll to wound".

Suddenly you half the efficiency of trying to get lucky wounds through.

Mass S3 (or even S4) shooting becomes close to useless.

(Heroic)Killingblows becomes less likely by a substantial amount.

Most magic missiles becomes an invalid solution

and what I like THE MOST: Cannons double their chances of NOT wounding.


When looking at it this way, I suddenly think that the Trickster helm becomes a valid substitute for (or addition to) a wardsave:

in theory, it ALWAYS gives you a 1/6 wardsave against successful wounds, as even on a 2+ to wound a re-roll could result in a 1.

Take it up to a S5 hit.
In this case you might have 3 sides on the die in your favor, as he will need a 4+ to wound you again.
That means that you have 3/6 or 50% chance of him NOT rolling that 4.
That ladies and gents, equals a 4+ Wardsave, as it has the exact same percentage of your OB not taking the blow.

Following this logic, it means that you have a 3+ Wardsave against all S4 attacks, and 2+ against everthing less than S4.

To add to greatness: It is NOT a wardsave, which means that you can add in one for even MORE chance of not getting hurt.

Weaknesses:
- Poison attacks
- Auto-wounding
- "removed as casualty effects"
 
I liked pairing it with the dueling blades, and the other tricksters shard. ;)
(and a cold one) (and some sort of ward if possible)
 
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Never thought of it that way. It's actually really usefull out of combat. I think the best way to complete the build is with a real ward, opposed to Dawnstone. Since this item along with the AS is best suited for low Str attacks (like you say S4 or lower)... it struggles with the high Str ones. That's where the ward save really shines :)

(And that's assuming you aren't already using those items)
 
Phatmotha-phucka said:
and what I like THE MOST: Cannons double their chances of NOT wounding.
Click to expand...

%wise you would go from a 83% to a 69,4% wound chance for canons. When you couple that with a 4+ ward, the wound chance will drop to 34%. (as opposed to a 0,42% without the helm). That still is not a percentage i really like to run my chances with.

If you calculate the 2 chances of a misfire in (2x 1/6) than the chance of a cowboy getting hit and wounded = 0,24% with helm and 4+ ward. or 0,289 without the helm, but with 4+ ward. So vs canons, the reroll from the helm doesn't really do that much percentage wise.

The protection against S6 bolt throwers also does not increase that dramatically, assuming 3+ to hit....it will go from 22% to hit and wound and get through the ward to 14% with the helm.
 
but it's amazing against KB :)

EDT:
hmm, actually, that comes with a "but":
but mainly if the opponent has low strength. if they wound on a 2+, it does almost nothing to KB, since all the non-KB wounds will also be rerolled....

but it is possible that most units with KB are somewhat low strength...
 
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I'm intrigued :pompus:
Might want to use this somehow; I never really thought of these numbers.
I suppose it's actually quite good against low strength units....
 
What a mess agaisnt executioners. They roll several dice. Reroll their rolls of 1, reroll that again if it hits haha.
 
It's actually a very good combination and the best part is that it still allows for 2 ultra tanky Oldbloods.

While somewhat expensive in total you can have:

OB w/ Armour of Destiny and Dawnstone against 10 WS6 S6 attacks you'll take an average of 0,41 wound.
OB w/ Helmet and Talisman of preservation against 10 WS6 S6 attacks you'll take an average of 0,54 wound.
OB w/ steggie helmet and talisman of preservation against 10 WS6 S6 attacks you'll take 0,62 wound.

All assuming 1+ save of course.

The steggie helmet excells against S4 attacks so one could argue that a steggie helmet, luck stone and +1 To Hit sword could be a decent RnF eater. ^^
 
Not that amazing.

You reroll all succesfull to wound rolls.

If they can only score on 6's, yes it is useful and can save you.

If they wounds on 5's or 4's or 3's you are rerolling those no KB wounds that can become KB. Beware !

Also Trickster Helm works wonder on Carno rider. As the mount is part of the model. (well gotta look the wording of the item)
 
oops, yea, good point indeed Mano..
 
I think we have etablished that it was a good point!
 
It is still better than not having it, if I have 18 hits against you that wound on 3+ I will have 9 wounds and 3 killing blows, I now re-roll those 12 dice so I get 6 wounds and 2 killing blows. so even with wounding on 3+ it still removes 1/3rd of the successful wounds including reducing the amount of killing blows. it can backfire on you of course since dice are random but overall it is much more likely to help and could fully negate a lot of killing blows.

Also playing with beasts magic can greatly increase its effectiveness, wyssans to T6 or pans pelt to T8 and that oldblood can tank anything.
 
This is a really nice item! I always use it when doing old blood lists this is how I equiped them

1st -> dawnstone, armor of destiny, other trickster shard, GW and coldone

2nd -> trickster helm, talisman of preservation, GW and Cold one

They are fantastic, good luck trying to kill them
 
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