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TOW ToW 2k game vs Orcs

R
Skink

Raagint

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Hello,

I'm going to be playing a 2k game against a friend of mine in about 2-3 weeks time. With life as a parent being quite hectic, I haven't had a chance to catch up properly with ToW or lizardmen in general. I've gone through the pdf and understand some of the rules changes but still lacking my first game. I was hoping I could get some help coming up with a 2k list for lizardmen (models aren't an issue, I have around 5k points worth of painted models). I understand skink skirmishers and dinos are now the backbone of our army but how would an actual list look like? I've taken a look at other army lists here and people are coming up with interesting ideas. Moreover, is a Slann preferred over an oldblood at 2k?

Thanks for the help.
 
Slann vs Oldblood is preference really. Both can work.

Here's what I used vs Orcs&Goblins in my last game. Wanted to try a Slann without Ethreal & Priest support (Arcane Vassal is usually key to really exploiting Slann as a caster). This one worked great:

2000 pts vs Orcs

++ Characters [998 pts] ++
Saurus Scar-Veteran [314 pts]
(Great weapon, Heavy armour (Scaly skin), Carnosaur, Talisman of Protection, Armour of Meteoric Iron)

Slann Mage-Priest [395 pts]
(Hand weapon, Lore Familiar, Ruby Ring of Ruin, Becalming Cogitation, High Magic)

Skink Chief [289 pts]
(Cavalry spear (if appropriately mounted), Light armour (Calloused hide), Battle Standard Bearer, Stegadon [Giant bow])

++ Core Units [652 pts] ++
18 Temple Guard [302 pts]
(Hand weapons, Halberds, Shields, Heavy armour (Scaly skin), Revered Guardian (champion), Standard bearer)

10 Saurus Warriors [140 pts]
(Hand weapons, Shields, Heavy armour (Scaly skin))

10 Skink Skirmishers [50 pts]
(Hand weapons, Javelins, Shields, Light armour (Calloused hides))

10 Skink Skirmishers [50 pts]
(Hand weapons, Javelins, Shields, Light armour (Calloused hides))

10 Skink Skirmishers [55 pts]
(Hand weapons, Javelins, Shields, Light armour (Calloused hides), Vanguard)

10 Skink Skirmishers [55 pts]
(Hand weapons, Javelins, Shields, Light armour (Calloused hides), Vanguard)

++ Special Units [350 pts] ++
Bastiladon [175 pts]
(Hand weapons, Javelins, Thunderous bludgeon, Solar Engine)

Bastiladon [175 pts]
(Hand weapons, Javelins, Thunderous bludgeon, Solar Engine)
 
@BeardedLizard looks like an interesting list. Did you have success with the list and how did you play it e.g. deployment? Also, how did you play the Slann? Since the toad isn't in with the temple guard, do you just fly the toad around the table or keep it near the temple guard?
 
The list did very well! Deployed the TG last to get in good position, while bastiladons protected it's flanks. Saurus were used as bait. Scarvet deployed to counter the wyvern and Slann bounced around the TG in the beginning but after skinks destroyed his war machines he was more free to move.

TG + Skink Chief Stegadon /w Slann support was a fist that couldn't be stopped. High Magic worked great with TG and it's extra good vs fanatics.
 
I used this list against orcs. Minor victory
===
Bastiladon List [1998 pts]
Warhammer: The Old World, Lizardmen
===

++ Characters [807 pts] ++

Saurus Oldblood [407 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Heavy armour (Scaly skin)
- Shield
- Carnosaur
- Talisman of Protection
- Blade Of Revered Tzunki

Slann Mage-Priest [400 pts]
- Hand weapon
- General
- Battle Standard Bearer
- Lore Familiar
- Higher State Of Mind
- Elementalism

++ Core Units [501 pts] ++

20 Saurus Warriors [321 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Shields
- Heavy armour (Scaly skin)
- Shieldwall
- Spawn Leader (champion)
- Standard bearer
- Musician

15 Skink Skirmishers [100 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Blowpipes
- Light armour (Calloused hides)
- Scouts

15 Skink Skirmishers [80 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Shields
- Light armour (Calloused hides)
- Vanguard

++ Special Units [230 pts] ++

Bastiladon [175 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Thunderous bludgeon
- Solar Engine

5 Chameleon Skinks [55 pts]
- Blowpipes
- Hand weapons
- Light armour (Calloused hides)

++ Rare Units [460 pts] ++

Ancient Stegadon [230 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Great horns
- Giant blowpipes

Ancient Stegadon [230 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Great horns
- Giant blowpipes

---
Created with "Old World Builder"

[https://old-world-builder.com]
 
BeardedLizard said:
The list did very well! Deployed the TG last to get in good position, while bastiladons protected it's flanks. Saurus were used as bait. Scarvet deployed to counter the wyvern and Slann bounced around the TG in the beginning but after skinks destroyed his war machines he was more free to move.

TG + Skink Chief Stegadon /w Slann support was a fist that couldn't be stopped. High Magic worked great with TG and it's extra good vs fanatics.
Click to expand...
Slann without ethereal is dead vs Orcs. They have op Magic plus War Machines. Black Orc on wivern is terrible war Machine too.
You n to keep distance from fanatic and black Orcs fantery (they start from+7 at combat).
ATM Orcs are the strongest army I think
 
You n Tzhunki Blade and Talisman on Oldblood. All game play around retard black orcs engage and your Oldblood n to play for counter wyvern Warboss. Or Worboss kill all your staff
BeardedLizard said:
Slann vs Oldblood is preference really. Both can work.

Here's what I used vs Orcs&Goblins in my last game. Wanted to try a Slann without Ethreal & Priest support (Arcane Vassal is usually key to really exploiting Slann as a caster). This one worked great:

2000 pts vs Orcs

++ Characters [998 pts] ++
Saurus Scar-Veteran [314 pts]
(Great weapon, Heavy armour (Scaly skin), Carnosaur, Talisman of Protection, Armour of Meteoric Iron)

Slann Mage-Priest [395 pts]
(Hand weapon, Lore Familiar, Ruby Ring of Ruin, Becalming Cogitation, High Magic)

Skink Chief [289 pts]
(Cavalry spear (if appropriately mounted), Light armour (Calloused hide), Battle Standard Bearer, Stegadon [Giant bow])

++ Core Units [652 pts] ++
18 Temple Guard [302 pts]
(Hand weapons, Halberds, Shields, Heavy armour (Scaly skin), Revered Guardian (champion), Standard bearer)

10 Saurus Warriors [140 pts]
(Hand weapons, Shields, Heavy armour (Scaly skin))

10 Skink Skirmishers [50 pts]
(Hand weapons, Javelins, Shields, Light armour (Calloused hides))

10 Skink Skirmishers [50 pts]
(Hand weapons, Javelins, Shields, Light armour (Calloused hides))

10 Skink Skirmishers [55 pts]
(Hand weapons, Javelins, Shields, Light armour (Calloused hides), Vanguard)

10 Skink Skirmishers [55 pts]
(Hand weapons, Javelins, Shields, Light armour (Calloused hides), Vanguard)

++ Special Units [350 pts] ++
Bastiladon [175 pts]
(Hand weapons, Javelins, Thunderous bludgeon, Solar Engine)

Bastiladon [175 pts]
(Hand weapons, Javelins, Thunderous bludgeon, Solar Engine)
Click to expand...
 
Nice list. How did your chameleon skinks perform seeing as there are only 5 of them? Would you consider reducing the number of chamelons to say 10 and if it fits, have 3x skink skirmishers? Also, how did you protect your slann without TG?
 
Orcs usually deploy:
An Orc on Wyvern
1-2 casters level 4 (so yes you need a Slann to dispel here)
Big infanteries (Stegadons helps)
Fanatics and more fanatics...
Catapults (you need scouts)

You need templates to kill fanatics so here come the slann, one salamander may help too (it cannot target fanatics directly but is devastating against infantery and if fanatics is on the way he is hitted too).

My experience is that usually is really hard to manoveur more than 6 scouts. This reason i never play skinks as scout but i do with chameleon. Especially against orcs that have a lot of units. Personally i don't play bigger units than 12 skinks. If you want a big one then play 16 (to increase panic limit to 5), not 15.

Stegadon weapon hits always on 6....so why not a giant bow? Is better against big things like wyvern or giants/trolls. I should even consider an ancient steggadon. Strength 6 is a big difference against orcs toughness of 4 and is good to have a magic missile at 15 range.
 
TzhunkiHuanchisukaePiangi said:
Slann without ethereal is dead vs Orcs. They have op Magic plus War Machines. Black Orc on wivern is terrible war Machine too.
You n to keep distance from fanatic and black Orcs fantery (they start from+7 at combat).
ATM Orcs are the strongest army I think
Click to expand...

Ethreal doesn't help against magic and I had the becalming cogitation to help with dispel. I felt the Slann was super safe as long as I kept it near TG or out of warmachine LOS. High Magic allowed me to bounce around with reserve move Slann. I definitely want to try a similar build more because it felt safe and strong.

The list I posted really countered worst orc threats and I highly recommend it. Maybe get scout skinks to get them to their warmachines faster.

It had:
Carno vs Wyvern
Dispel Slann vs their magic
High Magic vs fanatics
TG (buffed with high magic) + Stegadon chief vs Black Orcs
 
Raagint said:
Nice list. How did your chameleon skinks perform seeing as there are only 5 of them? Would you consider reducing the number of chamelons to say 10 and if it fits, have 3x skink skirmishers? Also, how did you protect your slann without TG?
Click to expand...
Is a turnament list, only 2x unit. Max 6 lv of Magic( dat include bonus spells). I'm considering putting swarms in place of the bastiladon, and increasing the number of chameleons. although honestly the scout skinks with javelin are stronger
 
BeardedLizard said:
Ethreal doesn't help against magic and I had the becalming cogitation to help with dispel. I felt the Slann was super safe as long as I kept it near TG or out of warmachine LOS. High Magic allowed me to bounce around with reserve move Slann. I definitely want to try a similar build more because it felt safe and strong.

The list I posted really countered worst orc threats and I highly recommend it. Maybe get scout skinks to get them to their warmachines faster.

It had:
Carno vs Wyvern
Dispel Slann vs their magic
High Magic vs fanatics
TG (buffed with high magic) + Stegadon chief vs Black Orcs
Click to expand...
If you play vs empire/ elf / dwarf /orcs, slann without ethereal is a dead man walking. If you don’t play ethereal you n temple guards
 
Alright, so from this discussion so far I gather that Slann + old blood combo is worth having. Moreover, skink skirmishers and stegadon (ancient?) with giant bow are a must include in the list (+ mandatory saurus unit of 10+ size). Other choices include Bastiladon, chameleon skinks and a skink chief on stegadon? How does the deployment of such a force look like? I used to play saurus + templeguard bunker for life slann + salamanders with relative success, but with some many skink units do the skinks go in front or the sides? Also what was GW smoking: Bastiladon has a strength of 4.. same as saurus warriors.
 
Raagint said:
Alright, so from this discussion so far I gather that Slann + old blood combo is worth having. Moreover, skink skirmishers and stegadon (ancient?) with giant bow are a must include in the list (+ mandatory saurus unit of 10+ size). Other choices include Bastiladon, chameleon skinks and a skink chief on stegadon? How does the deployment of such a force look like? I used to play saurus + templeguard bunker for life slann + salamanders with relative success, but with some many skink units do the skinks go in front or the sides? Also what was GW smoking: Bastiladon has a strength of 4.. same as saurus warriors.
Click to expand...
This is a turnament list, with limitations, so you can only play one piece above 195 points, which has more than 3 attacks = 2 ancients.
Giant bow suck, you can use it Just for big monsters,it's no longer like a ballista.
Have fun with bunker tactics vs Orcs… black orcs start from +7 combat and are rly more strong dat Saurus. Fanatics can litterally delate temple guards, and withot limitation orc player have 9 fanatic.

Bastiladon: trampling, and -3AP. but you play it because it has the bonus spell, the rest is relative. as I wrote above, I'm still thinking of replacing him with swarms or a saurus hero on cold one.
Skinks: 1)I use big skill unit like flankers for take down war machines. Scout + march and shoot, if you play good can arrive on war machines at turn 2.
2)as I wrote above, it is a tournament with a 2x unit limitation.so to stay within the minimum troop points, not being able to add other units, I enlarged the two present.
 
Giant bows do suck but so do blowpipes. You'll rarely shoot under 9 inches (otherwise you would have charged) and you'll always move so you need to ensure they have no cover otherwise you lose your poison (more or less). So probably you get one shot for the game. On average you'll do one wound from it. The Giant bow should get two shots off and you'll again probably need 6's or maybe a 5 for the second shot but it's a gamble to do some serious damage against something decent. Plus you can stand a shoot with it.

I don't think bows are better, just saying it's not as clear cut as you make out.
 
discomute said:
Giant bows do suck but so do blowpipes. You'll rarely shoot under 9 inches (otherwise you would have charged) and you'll always move so you need to ensure they have no cover otherwise you lose your poison (more or less). So probably you get one shot for the game. On average you'll do one wound from it. The Giant bow should get two shots off and you'll again probably need 6's or maybe a 5 for the second shot but it's a gamble to do some serious damage against something decent. Plus you can stand a shoot with it.

I don't think bows are better, just saying it's not as clear cut as you make out.
Click to expand...
it's unlikely that you won't be able to stand and shoot with the blowguns, and 2d6 hits with poisonous are better than a single shot with fo5 1d3 wounds honestly. blowguns shoot at 12 io and not 9.
Between all god machine is the best, but if i must choose i pref blowguns vs giant bow
 
Last edited:
TzhunkiHuanchisukaePiangi said:
it's unlikely that you won't be able to stand and shoot with the blowguns, and 4d6 hits with poisonous are better than a single shot with fo5 1d3 wounds honestly. blowguns shoot at 12 io and not 9.
Between all god machine is the best, but if i must choose i pref blowguns vs giant bow
Click to expand...
I am confused

You can't stand and shoot as cumbersome.

Why 4d6?

Giant blowpipes shoot at 18 so avoiding the -1 for long range is 9... Where does 12 factor in?
 
discomute said:
I am confused

You can't stand and shoot as cumbersome.

Why 4d6?

Giant blowpipes shoot at 18 so avoiding the -1 for long range is 9... Where does 12 factor in?
Click to expand...
I wrote it wrong, I meant 18. if you use blowguns you don't give a damn about the length, you aim to make some benefits. the giant bow still only makes 1 shot, which hits on average on a 5+ and causes 1d3 wounds, buy since it is not considered ballistic, it is totally useless against infantry. Think remain better 2d6 poison hits.
Btw are both shits so nevermind.
 
TzhunkiHuanchisukaePiangi said:
I wrote it wrong, I meant 18. if you use blowguns you don't give a damn about the length, you aim to make some benefits. the giant bow still only makes 1 shot, which hits on average on a 5+ and causes 1d3 wounds, buy since it is not considered ballistic, it is totally useless against infantry. Think remain better 2d6 poison hits.
Btw are both shits so nevermind.
Click to expand...
Yeah but infantry is shit and stegadons just mow through them! Haha
 
Hello and thank you for the discussion. This is a list I came up with which includes stuff from the two posted lists. As I haven't played in a while I'm not sure about e.g. Slann with Elementalism vs High Magic etc. Moreover, Becalming Cogitation vs Higher State of Mind -> since the slann is not in the TG bunker I'd like it to be safe so it doesn't get sniped by non-magical attacks. However, if orcs bring 2 lvl4 wizards, dispels are important as well. On that note, what are the Slann's dispelling capabilities without BC?


Lizardmen [1998 pts]
Warhammer: The Old World, Lizardmen
===

++ Characters [807 pts] ++

Saurus Oldblood [407 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Heavy armour (Scaly skin)
- Shield
- Carnosaur
- Blade Of Revered Tzunki
- Talisman of Protection

Slann Mage-Priest [400 pts]
- Hand weapon
- General
- Battle Standard Bearer
- Lore Familiar
- Higher State Of Mind
- Elementalism

++ Core Units [571 pts] ++

10 Skink Skirmishers [55 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Shields
- Light armour (Calloused hides)
- Vanguard

10 Skink Skirmishers [60 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Shields
- Light armour (Calloused hides)
- Scouts

10 Skink Skirmishers [60 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Shields
- Light armour (Calloused hides)
- Scouts

10 Skink Skirmishers [55 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Shields
- Light armour (Calloused hides)
- Vanguard

20 Saurus Warriors [341 pts]
- Thrusting spears
- Shields
- Heavy armour (Scaly skin)
- Shieldwall
- Spawn Leader (champion)
- Standard bearer
- Musician

++ Special Units [160 pts] ++

Bastiladon [160 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Thunderous bludgeon
- Ark of Sotek

++ Rare Units [460 pts] ++

Ancient Stegadon [230 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Great horns
- Giant blowpipes

Ancient Stegadon [230 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Great horns
- Giant blowpipes

---
Created with "Old World Builder"

[https://old-world-builder.com]
 
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