Hey guys! I recently started a Seraphon army for AoS and have been playing around with what I want to run. Unlike Ogres, you can summon so many units! I dont mind making this a cheesy army, however, certain hero I do not want to run more then one of. Such as Lord Kroak and Tetto'eko.
Not 100% sure what my starting list will have in it besides Lord kroak, a Engine of the Gods, a unit of temple guard, a carnosaur maybe and a unit of those terradon things lol. I also may buy some Chameleon skinks, the ability to pop up anywhere on the board during the hero phase sounds awesome..... taking out the backline heros a lot easier.
Anyways this is what I thought of during the start of my hero phase:
Lord Kroak (5 casts) > casts a Saurus with Astrolith banner, then the Saurus plants the banner for +1 to cast > Lord Kroak (4 casts) cast a Tetto, having a +1 to casting > Tetto (1 cast) casts another Saurus with Astrolith banner, then the Saurus plants the banner for another +1> Lord Kroak (3 casts) casts a Skink Starpriest with +2 for casting.... not sure what else I would like to cast.
First I'd like to say how crazy cheesy this would be lol.. and second is this restricted? I am not sure if once you start casting spells with Lord Kroak you have to finish all his 5 casts before moving on to someone else or not.
Please let me know! Cannot wait to play this army.. sounds way to much fun with all these summoning abilities, but they also seem to be a bit OP.
First quick note, Kroak has four casts per turn, not five.
Second note, the chameleons appear during the Movement phase, not the Hero phase.
Thirdly, Tetto can't summon, only Slann can summon. And as Slann are the only units that can't be summoned in the Seraphon army, that makes them any good player's primary target so you need to put a lot of effort into protecting them.
And finally, that's honestly a really weak set-up you have there. I mean come on, just one unit of infantry, no dedicated support, a misuse of the Hero roles, an over-reliance on summoning, and no synergy between your units? I have non-competitive fluff armies that are more balanced and powerful than that, let alone my actual competitive armies. That's not a cheese army, that's a punching-bag for actual well-developed armies.
To make yourself a balanced list, you need to keep the following things in mind.
#1: Infantry, use it. One unit is not enough even in the smallest games, not only do multiple units allow you to cover more ground and give your army a much-needed bonus to its ability to adapt to unexpected developments, but if you spend all of your time on heroes then your army will have no staying power as if you have an army of heroes against an army of infantry, the heroes will get obliterated due to sheer numbers. Even the mightiest of warlords can't stand up to entire armies without an army of their own, and a group of their individually powerful buddies does not class as an army. Furthermore with no infantry you have absolutely nothing stopping your enemy from sending a sniper or assassin to one-shot Kroak on the first turn and cut your most powerful hero off potentially before you even get the chance to use it, only beginner players at my Workshop wouldn't be able to do that to your army and even the beginners would probably do it at about Turn 2 instead.
#2: Stat lines are not representative of a unit's value. You seem to be falling into the unfortunately all too common misconception that too many influential and normal people fall into, which is to think "well why would I take a normal Slann and Saurus Warriors when I can take Kroak and Temple Guard instead?" The answer is pretty simple, it's because they all specialise at different things. If you took Temple Guard and Kroak in a defensive army then you're going to have one of the best defensive builds in the game, but if you try to take them for an offensive army then you're going to get wiped the hell out by an identical army that just uses Warriors and a normal Slann instead, because the Warriors and Slann are more optimised for aggressive play than Kroak and Temple Guard are. I know this because, after coming up with the theory behind it, I tested it and the difference between how well the two armies performed on the offensive was staggering, the Guard were sub-par at best when against a solid opponent while the Warriors dominated. And this is true of literally every unit in every army, there is not a unit in the entire game that does not have a place in competitive play,
I've checked. So when deciding which units to take, don't look at the statlines as they are, look at what you can do with the units as a whole in relation to the other units you can take for an optimal build for the strategy that you have in mind. Which brings us nicely to....
#3: Synergy>stats. The entire game right now is dominated by synergy because no matter how powerful a model or unit is, it's going to be weaker than a series of lesser-stat units working together. This is why Heroes are much weaker in combat now, they're support units dedicated to
leading your army rather than soloing entire hordes. Y'know, like generals should. For example, if you send the army you've got outlined now against my army of Warriors who are all being buffed twice by a normal Slann, once by a Sunblood, twice by a Starpriest, and once more by a Starseer, not to mention the handy-dandy Horde Bonus that nets more attacks and better Hit rolls, guess who's going to win that fight. I'll give you a hint, it's not the Guard with the more powerful statline. Instead of focusing on what unit is the most powerful, focus on what units work the best together to give the best united effect. You're sort-of onto this with your use of the Astriloth Bearer, but really that's bare-bones. The
only army that is exempt from this rule of Synergy over Stats, and I do mean the only army, are the Stormcast Eternals because they've clearly been specifically designed this way to serve as an "easy to learn, hard to master" army that can help beginners such as yourself ease into the game without having to focus on all this imposing Synergy. If you can't get your head around this rule, which is honestly the most important rule even if the others aren't far behind, then I advise that you drop the Seraphon and start a Stormcast army because they're much more in-line with your current way of thinking.
#4: Heroes are support. I know I touched on this before, but it deserves a rule of its own. Heroes aren't super-killy mass murderers as they used to be, they're much squishier, can't join units for protection, and don't deal a great amount of damage compared to basic infantry. This is traded for a whole host of really badass support abilities, if you go and check now you'll find that every single one of our heroes has a powerful support ability that will either allow you to synergise with other heroes for a boosted overall effect, debuffing your enemies, or just generally making your all-so-important infantry more powerful. There are some heroes that are killy, namely all the dudes on big monsters such as Carnosaurs, but even they tend to be very squishy if the enemy out-maneuvers you and traps them so you really need to be careful with them. The monster-heroes are like your Queen in chess. Super-powerful and capable of mass destruction, but it'll go down in one hit if your enemy traps it.
Especially if your enemy has a Monster Hunter, then your arse is grass.
As Seraphon players, we're uniquely blessed. Of all the armies in the game, we're pretty much the only one who can make use of any tactical archetype you can think of. We've got great cavalry and light troops for both offensive and defensive Fluid armies, we have the ability to rail off quite powerful Mortal Wounds to act as Line-Breakers to pierce high-armour defensive lines which is honestly an uncommon ability that only a small number of armies have, we have arguably the best defensive units in the game in the form of Temple Guard and while we lack War Machines, Kroak is like a living (dead?) Dwarf Cannon with a tonne of powerful offensive abilities to allow you to bully your enemy into brashly charging you before they're ready, and our Warriors, Sunbloods, and Slann allow for some really effective horde tactics to overwhelm your enemy with so many respawning troops that your opponent will think that the Skaven have turned into reptiles when they weren't looking. But all of these powerful tactics, or to use your term "all this cheese," requires far more than just a cursary glance at the stats. Age of Sigmar has solved the problem of only some armies being competitive, there are no real tiers now, and the game naturally rewards tactical brilliance over whichever army has the bigger stick. So if you really want that cheese you're looking for, you'll need to really think hard about not just what you're going to use, but how you're going to use it.
Of course, if you decide you want help with this, you need only ask.
