AoS Thunderquake Host Question

[Vextol]

Simply put, this batallion confuses me. I hope I'm not being dumb, but The Creator's Will is strangely worded.

Can anyone explain how this works? "The Eotg and any units in the batallion within 8 inches.....at the start of each combat you can declare swift or savage. Swift rerolls stuff, savage rerolls other stuff"

That's the crux. There is no time frame to speak of. So my question is if my opponent kills my Eotg, does that mean I lose my buff or does it mean I'm stuck with the buff that I had before he died? It says I CAN change it but never says I must. It also never says what happens when I get outside that 8 inch range...or for that matter if the effect lasts until my next hero phase. I assume it must last at least "kind of a while" because one of the effects allows me to reroll my charge...which is outside the combat phase. If it didn't keep, that effect would never be useful.

Thoughts?

 

[Bowser]

Yes, once the engine is dead the batallion loses the buff. It goes until the next combat phase. Yours or your opponents, at which point you would declare it again, if eligible.

 

[Vextol]

Thanks for the response. Do you have any reason to think that? I don't see anything in the wording to support that at all.

I'm not disagreeing, but it seems like an extremely undwerwhelming ability if that is true. Eotg gets smashed by ranged units (especially new ranged units). So it dies and you lose the buff? Right away?

My issue comes from the complete lack of duration in the batallion. It never says "until next combat phase" or "until next hero phase" or "while units are within 8 inches" or anything like that. The only thing it says is that at the start of each combat phase, if within 8 inches you CAN pick whether to reroll hits/charges or wounds/saves for an indeterminate duration.

It also makes the swift extremely odd. Why would you ever take it? You start combat phase OUT of combat and decide that next round it would be great to be able to reroll your failed charge assuming it's not your opponents turn/you get to go first and are SO far away that even after your movement phase you still think you will fail your charge roll? And you want to reroll your hits, not your wounds, even though the two are essentially statistically identical (except it's easier to modify to hit rolls).

I assumed that you choose what you want and if you are within 8 inches, you can change that. Still makes swift underwhelming but the batallion is a much more viable option. Otherwise, your Eotg has to get within shooting/magic range to be able to sustain the buff for your other units and will, henceforth, get completely annihilated. At least that's my experience !

 

[Bowser]

The wording on it is that the engine of the gods or Troglodon and any units within 8 inches. So the unit named is the key, if you don't have an engine or trog you can not, at the start of the combat phase is when you declare it, of you can't then the effect stops. You can interpret it differently, but be prepared to play it this way in a tournament.

 

[Killer Angel]

Yeah, it doesn't matter if you can or cannot choose. The ability works only if the units are within 8" from a Eotg / Trog.
Without the key unit, that ability doesn't work.

 

[Vextol]

I always check tournament feeds first before I ask others how they rule something so I don't ask dumb questions. I just didn't see any good reports.

Also it does matter if you can or 'do not want' to choose something. Maybe I want half of them to switch to swift and the other half to keep savage.

If you have to be within 8 inches at all points (which I'm pretty sure it never says) I REALLY don't understand swift. So now, you get to reroll your charge if you fail but it almost certainly gets you out of range of your EoTG so you lose your hit reroll bonus. Is "swift" in this batallion really just so you can reroll your hits on the searing beam on the bastilladons while they're parked right next to your EoTG?

I am big I'm not reading into abilities. I came from destruction where every batallion that brings guys back to life is completely stupid with the new reinforcement rules but I never questioned it. This one however is still confusing to me. I can't find any similar wording anywhere in any of the 9 battletomes that I've looked at or any warscroll.

There also aren't many abilities that last "until the next combat phase" (as in I don't know any) so it's hard to believe that is what is implied if there is no reference outside this batallion.

@Bowser have you seen this used in tournaments?

 

[Bowser]

I have used it in tournaments, and have gotten the same ruling. Because it takes effect in the combat phase and has the ability to reroll charges it goes from combat phase to combat phase. So in opponent's combat phase I may choose savage if they are at full strength, If I think I will roll over them, I would choose swift to get the charge on my next turn, If I think the opponent may get a double turn and has a good charge coming my way I may choose savage for the save rolls. In my own combat phase it works the same, of I think I get the double turn I will probably choose swift to get the charges and rerolled hits. It's very much situational, but still worth the 120 just for the healing. I pay 100 for a jade battlemage to heal one unit, 120 to heal 4 units per turn, well worth it. I know the Jade battlemage is slightly different with the spell, but just saying, I believe the cost is in point.

Creator's Will is very much meant for thinking ahead.

 

[Vextol]

So if you leave the 8 inch bubble it still works until the next combat phase?

In my own combat phase it works the same, of I think I get the double turn I will probably choose swift to get the charges and rerolled hits.

OK. I'm starting to flesh out swift. Swift is essentially useless in combat or if your opponent is going next. It is however good if you think you will get a double turn or if you are going second because it allows you to reroll your hit rolls in the shooting phase before your charge. After that, you're probably better off rerolling wounds and saves...though rerolling saves is always pretty good.

Actually, having the swift ability is a very good incentive to go second at the start of the game. You will be able to activate the buff on your opponents combat phase so the hit rerolls can be used on your first shooting phase. Means you can reroll your searing beam (beams) on the very first turn. Pretty nasty.

And the healing is nice, granted, but underwhelming without a slaan. One wound is meh to me. I mostly play against stormcast and they seem to deal no wounds or kill me outright.

 

[Bowser]

Yes, they just have to be in the bubble when it is declared.