8th Ed. "They're Everywhere!" .... I can't be the only one

[NexS1]

I just discovered the fact that the "They're Everywhere!" rule gives all units in base contact with the swarm's enemy poisoned attacks. This is amazing. I love this. Finally my second rank 6's have a benefit!

Am I the only one who didn't read this rule thoroughly until recently?

How much success have you folks had combo charging for this rule?

 

[teufelhund]

It's actually pretty worthless in most scenarios; you just bleed combat res... If you can put a swarm into a flank or just onto a corner where a character is in a challenge it can be awesome, but that's easier said than done. Even in horde with spears and PF that's barely enough poison to cancel out wounds lost losing the swarms. However this can be really aweome against some big baddies, but you're still better off just taking skirmisers and then you don't have to dedicate combat blocks to monster hunting.

 

[SilverFaith]

Poison is only good because it helps wound, which, on S4/5 saurus against t3 things, isn't all that great.

These swarms are in the weird place where Skinks would benefit a lot from them, but doesn't need it because innate poison is more reliable, and worse, is CHEAPER. they'd work really well on low S armies, like skaven, as well, but here we have them in our lizardmen army, where it just seems pretty pointless.

I've ran them a few times, and even if it seems great to not only get more attacks, but also auto-wound on 6s, it just never seems to earn back it's points.

tehenhauin is probably the most viable way of using.

 

[NexS1]

Ah that's very disappointing... It looks so cool on paper.

My theory is to have them on a corner so only 2 enemies may strike them, this way they stick around.
Even so, you're all right, my saurus are likely to wound anyway, and monster hunting with a combat unit is pointless...

Damn!

 

[n810]

They can be entertaining with a shadow slann,
Cast mind razor on them, they have LD 10.

 

[NexS1]

They can be entertaining with a shadow slann,
Cast mind razor on them, they have LD 10.

Fantastic! They still have to hit though...

 

[Dyvim Tvar]

I've had some good success with Swarm/Saurus combo. As long as you bring in the swarms corner-to-corner you don't bleed combat res and Poison is really helpful. There is a lot of T4+ stuff and even against T3 an extra couple kills can make a difference.

 

[NexS1]

I've had some good success with Swarm/Saurus combo. As long as you bring in the swarms corner-to-corner you don't bleed combat res and Poison is really helpful. There is a lot of T4+ stuff and even against T3 an extra couple kills can make a difference.

I'm likely to give it at least one battle and see if 5 chameleons are more worth my time. Time will tell!

 

[Qupakoco]

I've been having this thought lately too. I'm planning on bringing a few swarms to my next few games. It "seems" like it should work well, but I can see the placement being an issue.

Swarms unfortunately compete for my Special points. That's kinda the biggest drawback for me. Yeah, I can get a couple bases of swarms, but I can get another unit of Skirmishers for the same cost. Plus they count towards your core tax, so that makes them all more appealing.

Tit for tat I suppose. As is all in Warhammer.

 

[Scalenex]

The one time I brought Swarms and they did well, I intended to use They're Everywhere to back my Saurus Warriors and Temple Guard but I ended up using them as stallers. This was a perfect storm though.

-Watchtower scenario, I managed to take it from some Arrer Boys with my Temple Guard easily.
-Lots of rivers (both dangerous)

I only had one objective I needed to stall the enemy big blocks from. I could position my Swarms between two rivers that were dangerous terrain.

Orcs charge Swarms, lose models to dangerous terrain tests, easily kill the swarms, overrun into second river taking more dangerous terrain tests. Then they couldn't march next turn.

I think the key to using Swarms is be ready to use them for They're Everywhere OR as a stall and being flexible enough to see which one is better based on the battlefield you see in front of you.

 

[NexS1]

The one time I brought Swarms and they did well, I intended to use They're Everywhere to back my Saurus Warriors and Temple Guard but I ended up using them as stallers. This was a perfect storm though.

-Watchtower scenario, I managed to take it from some Arrer Boys with my Temple Guard easily.
-Lots of rivers (both dangerous)

I only had one objective I needed to stall the enemy big blocks from. I could position my Swarms between two rivers that were dangerous terrain.

Orcs charge Swarms, lose models to dangerous terrain tests, easily kill the swarms, overrun into second river taking more dangerous terrain tests. Then they couldn't march next turn.

I think the key to using Swarms is be ready to use them for They're Everywhere OR as a stall and being flexible enough to see which one is better based on the battlefield you see in front of you.

That's a really good point. The mindset of flexibility. How did they go as a roadbump?

 

[SilverFaith]

Honestly, if I want a roadbump, I'd rather take skinks. They'll likely hurt more as well, not to mention they are cheaper, same amount of wounds, and can stand and shoot. They also have vastly better initiative, so they actually have a decent chance of getting in a few attacks before dying, and at S3 rather than S2 (Though without poison)

In general, I just can't think of a situation where swarms would actually be a good investment, compared to any other investment i could make.

 

[Dyvim Tvar]

In general, I just can't think of a situation where swarms would actually be a good investment, compared to any other investment i could make.

I generally agree with this -- a unit of 7 Skink Skirmishers is generally a better investment point-for-point the a base of 2 swarms.

I still take swarms in 2 situations though:

1) Tournament comp -- If a tournament has a comp system, it will tend to punish the "skink cloud" and a unit of swarms will get off much easier than adding a 5th or 6th unit of skirmishing skinks.

2) Big games -- "They're Everywhere!" really does make Saurus Warriors more killy, and the effect is magnified when you have a big unit because there are more attacks that can benefit. So in a 3000 point game where I am running a unit of 40 Saurus Warriors with spears, effectively giving the whole unit poison makes them really nasty.

 

[NexS1]

1) Tournament comp -- If a tournament has a comp system, it will tend to punish the "skink cloud" and a unit of swarms will get off much easier than adding a 5th or 6th unit of skirmishing skinks.

In the comp system i'm subject to next, you get hit on the 4th unit of skirmishers. So i'm currently looking at 3 skirmishers, 1 cohorts, 2x 1 razordons and either (2 chammos) or (1 chammos and 2 swarms)
Razordons because this is SCGT and it's power choices vs. soft choices. Razordons are a soft choice to combat my channelling slann and LD banner

 

[Scalenex]

That's a really good point. The mindset of flexibility. How did they go as a roadbump?

They did well because the terrain was ideal. Swarms can march across rivers and avoid most dangerous terrain tests. Combining the Swarms stall with terrain is ideal. On a relatively open table, the few times I've used Swarms they die. I also beat the stuffing out another LM player's Swarms in a mirror matchup. If the other side is relatively mobile (like say a LM player) you can't really roadblock.

 

[SilverFaith]

That's a really good point. The mindset of flexibility. How did they go as a roadbump?

They did well because the terrain was ideal. Swarms can march across rivers and avoid most dangerous terrain tests. Combining the Swarms stall with terrain is ideal. On a relatively open table, the few times I've used Swarms they die. I also beat the stuffing out another LM player's Swarms in a mirror matchup. If the other side is relatively mobile (like say a LM player) you can't really roadblock.

I just don't see how Skinks aren't better in this role. Skinks also have a far bigger footprint, making them far better at stalling.

But sure, in comps, they might make perfect sense to bring along. But in a normal, "everything in the book allowed" game, I don't see the point, unfortunately. I even spend time making these pretty bases for them...

 

[Dyvim Tvar]

I just don't see how Skinks aren't better in this role. Skinks also have a far bigger footprint, making them far better at stalling.

Skinks are better in this role.

But sure, in comps, they might make perfect sense to bring along. But in a normal, "everything in the book allowed" game, I don't see the point

The "They're Everywhere" ability really is a good one and not fully appreciated by most opponents. It has come in really handy for me in some games when my Saurus have been engaged with durable rank-and-file (Plaguebearers) or really high T single models (Stank and TK constructs). Sure, in some games they just die, but that's true with everything. Not saying this makes Swarms better than skinks--I would spend points on skinks first--but they are fare from useless.

unfortunately. I even spend time making these pretty bases for them...

Me too

 

[hardyworld]

My first game with the new 8th Ed. LM book I brought a unit of swarms just to make use of the "They're Everywhere" rule. It ended up making the difference in one battle, which made them worth their points, but I haven't brought them since due to the unreliable use of the rule with combo charges, etc. If you are a person who is a fan of a unit of 30+ Saurus Warriors wielding spears, I think they are probably worth consideration in your list, but are not a 'must have' even in that case.

Until the 'Unstable' rule is...not quite as unstable (say with a mechanic closer to Daemonic Instability...I'm not saying this should be done, however), I think a unit of skink cohorts fill the role better for most LM armies. Maybe the next LM book will make them cheap enough for consideration (20 pts. per model?).

 

[NexS1]

As dyvim statedz the stank is a perfect example. I actually charged oldblood blade of realities out of a unit of temple guard and combo charged with swarms. This actually gave me the one wound that tipped it over the line to make it's next steam point roll blow it up.
Those 70 points also assisted my spear saurus in killing demi gryph knights. They directly assisted in the stank and partially assisted in the demis, which made them far more valuable than I thought they'd be!

 

[n810]

they just need to be core again.
(and cheeper)