8th Ed. They just broke Tetto... more so

[hdctambien]

Premature submit...

You throw one dice at 14 3+ spells resulting in 9.333 casts and some number <= 4.472 are dispelled, that should result in an average of ~5 spells being cast during a magic phase.

With an average of 8 dispel dice, 9.33 casts -> 1.3 spells being cast during a magic phase.

These new magic rules make it more likely that you will be able to cast a spell or two, but less likely that you will cast the big game changing spells or the specific spell you want to cast.

Rounding the spells cast in this example up to 2. Out of the 15 cheapo spells you can one-dice which 1 or 2 do you need to cast? How will you play your magic phase so that I don't dispel the spells you want?

It's a little more tactical now, potentially.

Also, there aren't that many armies that have access to magic like the Slann. I think just Lizardmen and High Elves (or the Elven Alliance stuff)

In most cases you're going going to be going up against aries with access to 56 spells. More likely they will have access to 7 or maybe 14 spells, total. And only 4 or 5 that they can try to spam at you. All of which you will probably be able to dispel if they are only one-dicing them.

The example you give actually shows how the new magic rules make the Slann "the most powerful casters" in the old world again. Possbily this was part of the Old Ones (GW's?) plan all along!

 

[Gringold]

Average power dice is 14 (average roll on 4d6), and average dispel dice is 4.472 (average roll of 2d6 taking the higher roll)

Average power dice is 14, but average dispel dice is 7. Dispel gets the best 2 out of the 4 dice rolled for power. (so in practice, an average 14 power dice will likely yield 8+ dispel dice)

Ah, I didn't realize they increased the number of dispel dice, as well. The scans of the new magic section on other sites leave off that bit.

Good to know.

So at the moment, it doesn't sound too vicious, except with a few combinations involving Loremaster for re-rolls, the attributes for Lore of Fire and Death, and one or two magic items that Lizardmen don't have access to.

Interesting stuff.

 

[SilverFaith]

Some lores will be significantly different in power after these changes, while others will be vastly inferior in comparison.

Death and its lore will be ridiculously good, because you can more easily get back tons of dice. Ogres Maw will also be insane, easily fully healing an ogre, and then adding to their spell casts - after 5 spellcasts, you have +9 to cast on a level 4, and it just keeps increasing. 1 dice everything, and sooner or later, you will be 1-dicing even 15+ spells, assuming you get enough through. Fire is somewhat similar, though less so than the ogre one.

Skavens Warpstone Tokens will be super expensive in comparison, because you suddenly have twice the dice, which makes them half as effective - UNLESS they get to add these ON TOP OF the cap, so a Skaven Wizard who rolled a 3, can take a snack and then use 4 dice to cast with.

The high lore for elves is also more potent, allowing easy staking of their attribute. And Lore of Undeath? Nagash suddenly got a lot more powerful.

My local group has ruled that these are only in effect in End Times games, since they are not marketed as rules update, and thus not something we NEED to buy to play the game properly, like a new edition would be. If GW said "NEW RULES, BUY THIS", it would be different, but so far, that's not the case, hence why we aren't using them. Unless they rewrite the core rules like they did with hero and lord allowances, we will only be using them if both players agree that we are playing an End Times game.

 

[hdctambien]

Yeah, I didn't see the "Magic of the End Times" page get leaked. There are a few tidbits on those pages.

"A spell can be cast more than once in the Magic Phase as long is it is not (a list of a few things including...) a spell for which a filed casting attempt was made in the same Magic Phase."

So if you have 2 heavens priests, one one fails to cast Iceshard Blizzard, no other wizard can attempt to cast Iceshard Blizzard that turn!!

Another restriction from that list: "A spell with a casting value of 15+ for which a casting attempt has been made in the same Magic Phase"

So if Tetto attempts to cast Comet (even if he is successful) your Slann cannot also try to cast Comet. 15+ spells can only be attempted once per phase!

There is no reason do double up on Lores (unless you want redundancy against the wizard being killed)

Casting the boosted version of a spell (boosted to 15+ casing cost) will be the last time you can attempt that spell in a magic phase.

The new rules will probably lead to a lot more casting of the smaller spells, and an occasional attempt at the #6 and End Times spells (you only have a 1/3 chance of having 5 or 6 dice to attempt the cast with ... and you better have drawn out the Dispel Scroll by then if you're attempting a #6 spell)

 

[Gringold]

It sounds like you have a copy of the book and the new magic rules, hdctambien.

Do they mention anything about bound spells?

 

[hdctambien]

Bound Spells are never referenced in the Khaine book. So I guess they work the same as described in the BRB.

The BRB says "A bound spell is cast just like an ordinary spell - using dice from the power pool."

Which seems to bring us back to the Khaine book which says

"Spells can be used any number of times as long as all previous attempts to cast the spell have been successful. The only exception to this are End Times spells, and any other spell wit ha casting value of 15+"

And

"Casting Spells: A spell can be cast more than once in the Magic Phase, as long as it is NOT:

- An End Times spell that was already attempted
- A spell with casting cost 15+ that as already attempted
- A spell that has has a failed casting"

I didn't check the FAQ to see if there is any clarification about what it means to "cast a bound spell" but it seems to me that bound spells are affected by the "can spam spells" rule (but not the "get access to all of the Lore rule, ie, if you have the Ruby Ring you won't get access to all of Fire")

However, the BRB could just be saying "Bound Spells use Power Dice" rather than saying "Bound Spells follow all rules that regular Spells follow". Hard to say, since there really weren't any other rules for regular spells before now.

 

[Sleboda]

Does not apply to bound spells.

Where did you read that? I didn't see any restrictions of that nature on the scanned pages that I've seen on other sites. And the BRB describes bound spells as being cast "just like an ordinary spell", which these new rules now apply to.

Just double checked. You are correct. Recast bounds until they fail/are dispelled. I suppose this means the Ruby Ring can prevent other Fireballs now too.

 

[hdctambien]

I suppose this means the Ruby Ring can prevent other Fireballs now too.

I just came back to add that point. It also nerfs the Dark Elf Warlocks a bit (and the Wood Elf equivalent) and the Pink Horrors, too.

 

[hdctambien]

More importantly, we can cast the Bastiladon lazer over and over again!

 

[NexS1]

"Spells can be used any number of times as long as all previous attempts to cast the spell have been successful. The only exception to this are End Times spells, and any other spell wit ha casting value of 15+"

So... does that mean Kroak is no longer cool

 

[Sleboda]

It also nerfs the Dark Elf Warlocks a bit

=> How? They now get all the Death Spells and can cast Soulblight many times on certain units and finish with a boosted Soulblight to everyone.

To me, Warlocks are one of the biggest winners in this system.


BTW - Good catch on the Lazer! Even less reason for me to take a Slann now. Priests and Lazers!

 

[hdctambien]

Even less reason for me to take a Slann now. Priests and Lazers!

Haha, only you Sleboda. The Slann has access to 64 spells... at the same time! What do you need to happen? The Slann can make it so!

How? They now get all the Death Spells and can cast Soulblight many times on certain units and finish with a boosted Soulblight to everyone.

Yeah ... I realized that post-posting. Man, I hate Warlocks...

But... all you have to do is dispel one Soulblight and it's done. Doesn't matter how many units of Warlocks there are. Doesn't matter if there are any other Wizards in the army. Just stop it once.

That's the nerf I was thinking of.

 

[Sleboda]

Ah. That makes sense. I don't usually face more than one unit.

 

[Screamer]

Stegadon w. enginge of gods... both for reducing the casting value, and spam bound spell.
Backed up by a bastiladon.

One-dice spam both until you fail, or get dispelled, then go on with the slann and cast the spells you want. Could be a bloody, bloody magic phase. It could even be worth it to Purple sun your own saurus just to get the extra PD. Sure, it would be 33 pts/PD, but at a certain point it could definitely be worth it.

 

[Rettile]

Recently i started running no slann lists, but with these new changes my frog will come back. 4D6 power dices, lots of spells avaible, low casting values... this just makes him so affordable and makes possible wonderful combos between lores. Add Tetto to the mix and your fat frog will be able to one or two dice lots of spells with low risk. Anyway, it's funny to see that when GW gives us something good... it's actually because they wanted to give something to the elves!

 

[KingCheops]

So how are people treating the interaction of Arcane Configuration and the "only 1 casting of 15+ casting value spells"? Is there a word somewhere that I missed where it means I can't spam cast Final Transmutation and Purple Sun?

Also note that fulcrums are a pretty safe place to put your Slann.

Any Dice is telling me that the expected value are 14 power to 9.34 dispel. However, 80% of the time dispel will be 8-12 with a 52% chance of being 10-12. Of course more than 50% of the time power will be 14-24 and when your power is low so will the dispel.

I'm thinking Death with Arcane Configuration and Arcane Vassals are looking pretty good to give all my units Terror and spam cast Caress of Laniph at 5+ to deal with pesky mages.

But there's something to be said for conjuring my Screaming Skull Catapults onto the table.

 

[Bloodzerker]

Does that mean soulbound items can be cast multiple times? Fire away Kroq-Gar!

 

[Mr Phat]

So... does that mean Kroak is no longer cool

Miscast protection
unbreakable TG with -1 to hit?
A bombing spell that targets EVERYTHING?

He still kicks behinds!

also....have a feeling...just a feeling, that he will get new rules.
Undeath is at its high, he IS undead.
Knowing ONE spell, suddenly makes you know an ENTIRE lore.
...hmmmm wonder what lore Deliverance of Itza belongs to..
It feels like too many things correlate between Kroak and the recent changes, to NOT have an effect on him
Would feel like a lost opportunity.....so...thats probably exactly what it will be.

Does that mean soulbound items can be cast multiple times? Fire away Kroq-Gar!

soulbound?
where did that come from?

Magic items with BOUND spells mate

 

[Rettile]

i hppe you're right about Kroak, mate. He could be awesome... well, more than now

 

[Mr Phat]

I just realised something.

if you bring Tetto you MUST use his ability if you can, which prevents you from using the loremaster ability if you roll a 1.