9th Age The Response of Recent Activity (Not a Joke)

[The Sauric Ace]

So due to recent lots of response an uproar in the lizard part of the ninth age, the board has gotten into quite I pickle if I may say so.
You probably all know the story by now, the new update was rather rushed, since only one man could take action. One guy quitted and the other went to a rainforest.

The board of ninth age are currently not particular happy about the state of the SA Army Support and feel that this is partly due to my inactivity; which they feel has not helped the situation at hand. Sadly.

Due to this they have decided to remove me from my current position.

Now this is of course a shame, but I'm also okay with the decision, they need to revision the staff of SA, since all this came to be. The best way is thus to get some more activity going between the community and the Staff.
I myself had already noticed that I were more hovering over conversation than taking part in it, perhaps I were no longer as invested, perhaps I'm too much caught up in the real world Never the less I am glade that I was a part of it, and I write this just so you know, that I will no longer have any authority within the Ninth age forum.
Still though I urge you to keep active and let your voice be heard in the debate, no matter who's the Army support and Staff member. You still got Pink and Mr. Phat

Thank you!

 

[airjamy]

Ace, thanks a lot for all the hard work you have no doubt put into 9th age. It are hobbyists like you that keep the hobby going beyond AoS, and i can only admire you for that. It is true that the latest version was really not up to snuff, and i was one of the people criticizing the new release. I really hope that the next version is better, but i have all the trust in the world that the v1.0 version of 9th will be truly great. Good that you are being such a champ about this, people could be bitter about these sorts of things, and i am glad that you can stand above that.

Have a good one!

 

[The Sauric Ace]

Thanks Airjamy! I appreciate it

As I said I truely believe that they need a good handful of new and ready staff members to fix this mess and get it done right! So I accept not being up to such a huge challenge, I'm a little relieved actually

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

The board of ninth age are currently not particular happy about the state of the SA Army Support and feel that this is partly due to my inactivity; which they feel has not helped the situation at hand. Sadly.

Due to this they have decided to remove me from my current position.

Wow... this really bugs me. It looks like they are using you as a scapegoat. It is not your fault that this entire 9th Age project is turning into a mess and even now you remain positive and optimistic towards them. It appears they didn't appreciate the work and effort that you volunteered.

Realistically, my view is that you're on a lifeboat and you get to safely watch the 9th Age ship sink to the bottom of the ocean.

I applaud you for the initiative you took to help save the hobby that we all enjoy.

 

[Niarg]

From the sounds of it you've had a harder time than any other army support and although a lot of bad changes were made, I'm not sure that being more proactive would have stopped *all* of the really bad changes going through.

It does sound like you're taking it positively though which is good to hear.

 

[airjamy]

Wow... this really bugs me. It looks like they are using you as a scapegoat. It is not your fault that this entire 9th Age project is turning into a mess and even now you remain positive and optimistic towards them. It appears they didn't appreciate the work and effort that you volunteered.

Realistically, my view is that you're on a lifeboat and you get to safely watch the 9th Age ship sink to the bottom of the ocean.

I applaud you for the initiative you took to help save the hobby that we all enjoy.

Wow wow let's not get ahead of ourselves here, the fact that there have been some hiccups in the management and writing of the 9th crew does not mean that they are ''sinking to the bottom of the sea''. The people behind 9th are doing their best to make a compelling system for all of us, and i feel that the least that we can do is at least give them time until they present their final version of at least the SA rules, that being v1.0.

I also think it is reasonable to demand a certain level of activity from 9th age staff members. You want to keep the teams small to keep the communication effective i can imagine, and there is a lot of work to be done, a lot of questions, a lot of writing. I know a few of the 9th age writers in person, and i know that it is really a taxing job to be in the 9th age staff. There is a certain minimum of work that you have to do to really effectively participate in the system, and if you cannot for any reason, that is a reason to respectfully part from certain staff members. I think that is exactly what happened here, and nobody is at any fault for that. Nobody presented Ace as a scapegoat, you could realistically see this as a step in another direction for the development of the SA and 9th in general.

I really do not think that 9th is turning into a mess, they had just one bad turn with a long road ahead and behind them. Think about how many bad turns GW had to take to destroy Warhammer Fantasy, so many bad books and bad rules, so many completely OP armies for so long, and that game is still played right now. Let's all take a step back from v0.99, i think everyone sees that it is an improper version, and i think that this message is very clear to the 9th development crew.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Wow wow let's not get ahead of ourselves here, the fact that there have been some hiccups in the management and writing of the 9th crew does not mean that they are ''sinking to the bottom of the sea''.

Perhaps that is a "little bit" of an over exaggeration on my part . Let's just say that I currently feel that they have lost and are are continuing to lose members from an already small player base. I don't mean to imply that the game will suddenly disappear (even though my previous statement did just that ).

I also think it is reasonable to demand a certain level of activity from 9th age staff members. You want to keep the teams small to keep the communication effective i can imagine, and there is a lot of work to be done, a lot of questions, a lot of writing. I know a few of the 9th age writers in person, and i know that it is really a taxing job to be in the 9th age staff. There is a certain minimum of work that you have to do to really effectively participate in the system, and if you cannot for any reason, that is a reason to respectfully part from certain staff members. I think that is exactly what happened here, and nobody is at any fault for that. Nobody presented Ace as a scapegoat, you could realistically see this as a step in another direction for the development of the SA and 9th in general.

I have no real background information on this whole situation. It could all be a coincidence. The timing seems poor however.

• 9th Age messes up the 0.99 version of SA
• There is a scaley uprising among us fellow Lizards
• The Sauric Ace is let go

Although I have no idea what goes on behind the scenes, I think we can agree that The Sauric Ace is not at all responsible for this debacle. Push comes to shove, I stand behind my Lizardy brothers and sisters!

I really do not think that 9th is turning into a mess, they had just one bad turn with a long road ahead and behind them. Think about how many bad turns GW had to take to destroy Warhammer Fantasy, so many bad books and bad rules, so many completely OP armies for so long, and that game is still played right now.

Hmmmm... how many bad turns did it take to destroy Warhammer Fantasy? I would say two...

1. The End Times
2. Age of Sigmar

But in all honesty, GW could afford to make far more numerous and grievous mistakes than 9th Age because they had/have a lot of other things going for them...

• backing of the largest miniature war gaming company in the world
• a rich background evolved over decades of work
• model support
• store / retail support (gaming space)
• large player base
• sense that rules are coming from an "authority" figure

9th Age can't afford to make even a fraction of the mistakes that GW did. Also to be perfectly honest, I've never picked up a GW produced Lizardmen army book and feel as disappointed as I did with the 0.99 release.

April will be interesting.

 

[Pinktaco]

Wow... this really bugs me. It looks like they are using you as a scapegoat. It is not your fault that this entire 9th Age project is turning into a mess and even now you remain positive and optimistic towards them. It appears they didn't appreciate the work and effort that you volunteered.

Realistically, my view is that you're on a lifeboat and you get to safely watch the 9th Age ship sink to the bottom of the ocean.

I applaud you for the initiative you took to help save the hobby that we all enjoy.

I'll be honest, your comment bother me. In fact I find it to be a slap in the face since I'm doing my best to keep this running so that we all get the best experience.

Now, I know Sauric Ace irl, I have absolutely nothing against him and consider him a friend. Nobody have ever said "this is his fault", however I will not lie to you. We basically had 2 inactive AS members and only 1 active ABC member. Other armies have 3 ABC + 2 AS members all participating discussing. That's not sustainable for the project and especially not for our favorite army.
Could we have had a better product with a full SA staff? Absolutely, do I consider this the mistake of Sauric alone? Never! In fact it could be argued it's also an issue in the higher up management, so perhaps we're all to blame and not just a single person.

You mentioned the voluntary part as if that only applied to Sauric, but how about the rest of us? I've been busting my ass off to get sneak peeks going (because someone else basically dumped everything to me because he didn't have the time himself and because other members were inactive) and general project management and now I have to work harder to get the SA staff working, properly.

As a voluntary project it's extremely important to say when it's time to take a break because otherwise you have people in the other end who are wasting their free time. It's a massive undertaking and there are always people relying one someone somewhere. Now, I don't mind Sauric not mentioning his lack of time, the decision was never personal. We did what we did out of respect to the community and NOT because we needed a scapegoat. We need to keep the wheels moving and sometimes tough calls have to be made.

With that said I've been working to get good members on board and so I'm happy to say that @Haemoglobin will be part of the AS. I've been in contact with him as of late and I think he'll do a fantastic job.

If I sound harsh it's not because I'm in any way annoyed at Sauric, but because I don't appreciate comments like this when they're not only for from the truth, but hurtful since I've been doing my best to make this the best possible. And yes I'm part of the executive board so when you say "them" you basically mean me

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

I'll be honest, your comment bother me. In fact I find it to be a slap in the face since I'm doing my best to keep this running so that we all get the best experience.

Nowhere within my post did I say (or imply) that you aren't working very hard and doing a great job. I've seen first hand how hard you have worked.

Nobody have ever said "this is his fault"

Not directly, which I alluded to in my subsequent post...

I have no real background information on this whole situation. It could all be a coincidence. The timing seems poor however.

• 9th Age messes up the 0.99 version of SA
• There is a scaley uprising among us fellow Lizards
• The Sauric Ace is let go

Although I have no idea what goes on behind the scenes, I think we can agree that The Sauric Ace is not at all responsible for this debacle.

We basically had 2 inactive AS members and only 1 active ABC member. Other armies have 3 ABC + 2 AS members all participating discussing. That's not sustainable for the project and especially not for our favorite army.
Could we have had a better product with a full SA staff? Absolutely, do I consider this the mistake of Sauric alone? Never! In fact it could be argued it's also an issue in the higher up management, so perhaps we're all to blame and not just a single person.

What can be inferred is that somebody (or a group of people) dropped the ball. I don't have the information (or desire) to assign blame, but I'm pretty sure that the misguided 0.99 version of SA was not The Sauric Ace's fault. If a situation arose that left the project short-handed, then alternative measures should have been taken in my honest opinion. I personally would rather have had someone else brought on board or had the release delayed instead of releasing what I feel is a sub-par product. This is not meant to offend or attack you personally in any way.

You mentioned the voluntary part as if that only applied to Sauric, but how about the rest of us? I've been busting my ass off to get sneak peeks going (because someone else basically dumped everything to me because he didn't have the time himself and because other members were inactive) and general project management and now I have to work harder to get the SA staff working, properly.

Once again I said nothing to imply that you aren't volunteering your time freely or that The Sauric Ace is the only one doing so.

If I sound harsh it's not because I'm in any way annoyed at Sauric, but because I don't appreciate comments like this when they're not only for from the truth, but hurtful since I've been doing my best to make this the best possible. And yes I'm part of the executive board so when you say "them" you basically mean me

Let me emphasize that I am in no way trying to attack you in this post or any of my previous posts. The 9th Age has been released to the public and as such is open to criticism. That is the nature of such a project and endeavour. Like it or not, many people seem to feel that the 0.99 SA rules are below standard and as such frustrations will be expressed. Keep in mind that...

• I did not call out anyone by name
• I did not use inappropriate or hateful language
• I did not levy any personal attacks

I merely expressed my feelings in support of my fellow Lustrian compatriot.

 

[The Sauric Ace]

Hi pink thanks for the response, that was very kind if you to elaborate. I could only give my point of the event and it didn't want this to sound like I was bitter or that I feel like anyone had blamed me for anything, but inactivity. I accept this as an outcome, especially since I realise that the coming challenge are hard to overcome, for any staff member, and such we need members that are wholly committed to the project like Pink; who has already done quite a lot

I must say that I also don't think the project is dead, not at all! Though this is an obstacle that means a lot if effort from everyone that is still involved

 

[airjamy]

Hmmmm... how many bad turns did it take to destroy Warhammer Fantasy? I would say two...

1. The End Times
2. Age of Sigmar

But in all honesty, GW could afford to make far more numerous and grievous mistakes than 9th Age because they had/have a lot of other things going for them...

• backing of the largest miniature war gaming company in the world
• a rich background evolved over decades of work
• model support
• store / retail support (gaming space)
• large player base
• sense that rules are coming from an "authority" figure

9th Age can't afford to make even a fraction of the mistakes that

It is true that GW has had a lot more backing them, that is true. I think that there were more steps on the way to Oblivion for them though, Storm of Magic, not answering questions of fans who were spending loads of money on their products, not updating armies when they were OP (DE and WoC, especially WoC, were by far the most competitive armies at the end of 8th), failing to see what sort of company they are (a gaming company, not a model producing company), and yes well, the nails in the coffin were the End Times and AoS, though i blame nobody for enjoying AoS.

I think the most important argument for 9th having less room for error is not mentioned in their list, their biggest problem might be that there are alternatives. Fantasy never had any real competition in the same style, and now there are a bunch of systems, all fighting for attention and play time. It is the hardest time to survive for a Fantasy wargame in an extremely long time, since the conception of the concept of Fantasy wargaming i would say!

I also appreciate to see that you noticed that you went a bit to far, all there is to it now is waiting for v1.0!

 

[Pinktaco]

@NIGHTBRINGER
I haven't been here a lot recently because Ive been busy, so when I get back I see posts about how "they" (people in charge i. e. me) used people as scapegoats and didn't appreciate the effort. That's harsh. And sure you're allowed to say what you want and openly critizie the project, I would just personally prefer it would've been seen in a different way, but that's not my call.

I don't mind discussing these matters, in fact I've several times openly states that people are welcomed to ask any questions and even specifically stated that people can pm me to make sure I notice it.

I prefer to discuss these things or at least be @called instead of randomly throwing accusations, or what to my perspective e appear to be accusations.

So if there's anything you or anyone else wishes to discuss something related,to the project I'm here for it. I'm also willing to listen and learn.

@The Sauric Ace I didn't take your post as bitter, just informative about recent events, which is entirely your right to do so ^^

 

[Pinktaco]

I just want to say the following in regards to ships sinking and what not:
The founders of T9A never thoughts they'd go this far. They wanted to continue our hobby and suddenly it all blew up. Here we are, ETC 2016 have voted T9A as the system to be played, most of Europe have turned to T9A and the US are slowly turning to our direction. Frankly it's hard to make the right calls because we're not educated in this, we're just passionate and do our best.

Nobody on the staff are blind and nobody are without mistakes. We're all mere humans and fuck ups happen. We live, we learn and we improve.
It's highly unlikely anybody could do this would stumpling on the way and so of course T9A have done as well and will do so again in the future.

Nobody in the higher up staff are so blind that this system will be perfect within a year, HOWEVER, we'll keep on building on the foundation created and improve the game.

And here's the best part: if people are displeased they can do exactly what they want. We're no longer prisoners of a single game, but have the opportunity to choose. KoW is promising, WHFB 8.5 might be a thing, AoS just as well. The market is big enough to bear these games. So if someone gets frustrated there's always something else and to me that's great. I'd hate to see people shelve their dolls because of lack of opportunities.

Will T9A crash and burn? I can't tell, but if it does it'll be a blow to the entire community since that'll leave us one game shorter.

 

[The Sauric Ace]

Thanks pink, I didn't think that you did, just wanted to make it clear. Internet and all

If anything I'm disappointed in myself and wish I could have been of more assistance especially now. I feel a little like I was the drunk guy at a party, who threw up and then, instead of allowing me to clean it up, I was, rightly so, put to bed. If you get the analogue

 

[ASSASSIN_NR_1]

The way I see all of this is:

I think we can all agree that there are some not so great changes in the Saurian Ancients army book, but they were made because of bad timing and a lot of pressure. Even so, it wasn't too bad. I mean it is not like the army is unplayable, and by half forcing us to make a different composition of our army, maybe we find another way to play it.

The 9th age team is overall doing a great job, but as it has been stated more than once, noone is perfect. The goal now, is to fix the issues that has arisen from the latest update, which I have faith all the passionate people working with the 9th age will do, especially now that they have got a bit of a thrashing, justified or not.

Even the Slann fail sometimes, as have been seen when sometimes their brains have melted, due to too much information or some such, probably the same here, too much chaos at once.

 

[Haemoglobin]

I know that I will do my best to try and tip the scales a bit more in our favor. Get some of the really weird rules sorted (IE Skink Palanquin only giving hatred to Skinks that die to anything that looks funny at them). This is what I personally would like to do.

However the title "Army Support" really is what the title says: support. Supporting the ABC and rule teams with feedback from the SA community. I hope (but I do have a good feeling about it) that the SA feedback will be used and implemented into the April update. But if you guys want to help out, play lists, try things out and report your findings in the feedback posts on the ninth age forums that I have put up. It would be a great help.

@The Sauric Ace I just wanted to say that I in no way wanted to push you out of your AS position. I just asked around if I could be of help to the project. I am definitely going to ask for your opinion on matters in the future

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

I haven't been here a lot recently because Ive been busy, so when I get back I see posts about how "they" (people in charge i. e. me) used people as scapegoats and didn't appreciate the effort. That's harsh. And sure you're allowed to say what you want and openly critizie the project, I would just personally prefer it would've been seen in a different way, but that's not my call.

I don't mind discussing these matters, in fact I've several times openly states that people are welcomed to ask any questions and even specifically stated that people can pm me to make sure I notice it.

I prefer to discuss these things or at least be @called instead of randomly throwing accusations, or what to my perspective e appear to be accusations.

There are only so many ways I can tell you that my comments were not aimed at you... and trust me if they were, I'd admit as much. In the end it is up to you to choose whether you wish to believe me or not.

I did perhaps read too much into the title of the thread: "The Response of Recent Activity". In my mind "recent activity" took on the meaning of the poor 0.99 version and the criticism levied by the community. The "response" I took to mean the letting go of The Sauric Ace. That is where my frustration arose from, because in my mind he had nothing to do with it. I have my feelings on whose fault that is, but it doesn't really serve any purpose calling anyone out (and I honestly don't mean you... just for clarification so that my words are not misinterpreted).

And the reason for not @tagging you, the comment was not aimed at you. Simple as that. In my mind they had absolutely nothing to do with you. As you can imagine, I don't keep tabs on what you do within the 9th Age framework other than pass along news to us.

And here's the best part: if people are displeased they can do exactly what they want. We're no longer prisoners of a single game, but have the opportunity to choose. KoW is promising, WHFB 8.5 might be a thing, AoS just as well. The market is big enough to bear these games. So if someone gets frustrated there's always something else and to me that's great. I'd hate to see people shelve their dolls because of lack of opportunities.

I think this is where our ideas fundamentally differ. You feel that having more selection is a good thing, which in some ways it is. However with such a small niche market to begin with, the player base is already small. Having all these games floating around fractures the community even further. In my view, nothing would be better than for one single game (which could be 9th Age) to emerge and obliterate the competition. At least we could then enjoy a small semblance of our hobby before the End Times.

 

[airjamy]

The way I see all of this is:
+

I think we can all agree that there are some not so great changes in the Saurian Ancients army book, but they were made because of bad timing and a lot of pressure. Even so, it wasn't too bad. I mean it is not like the army is unplayable, and by half forcing us to make a different composition of our army, maybe we find another way to play it.

The 9th age team is overall doing a great job, but as it has been stated more than once, noone is perfect. The goal now, is to fix the issues that has arisen from the latest update, which I have faith all the passionate people working with the 9th age will do, especially now that they have got a bit of a thrashing, justified or not.

Even the Slann fail sometimes, as have been seen when sometimes their brains have melted, due to too much information or some such, probably the same here, too much chaos at once.

This is so exactly what i meant, you just said it better, and with less words! XD. People fucked up, stuff will get better, even the best people fail!

 

[The Sauric Ace]

@Haemoglobin im sure you'll be great asset to the team and trust me I don't feel as I was pushed out, the action was to me very much of my own inactivity and failure to react quick enough to the demanding task after the release.