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The Random Thread of Random Randomness

Tk'ya'pyk said:
@NIGHTBRINGER @Lizards of Renown : I have played against VC many times. I have played AS VC a few times, but not past 7th edition for either. VC were, during the time I played as/against them, very much a deathstar-hero army. Lots of chaff designed with one purpose in mind: Getting your big, badass Vampire into melee with the enemy army. Very few LORD-LEVEL characters could go toe-to-toe with even a Thrall, let alone a Count. I managed to lock a tooled up Vampire Count to a standstill with my Dark Elf Lord back in 6th edition when they did the Dark Elf Cityguard list in White Dwarf, but a draw was the best I could manage. I respected the VC, I would fight against them depending on the player, but I did not like them much as they always felt kind of OP.

Tomb Kings, on the other hand. I was NEVER good at running that army and gave up fairly quickly (before the really FUN stuff was added to the army - no Necrosphinx for me, they didn't have them back in 5th edition/6th edition). But I loved playing against Tomb Kings. Their resurrection trick was annoying, but I could live with it. Ushtabi were dangerous, but could be managed. Generic Dogs of War could fight them to a draw without using stupid tricks. My Cityguard were usually 50/50 against them, depending on luck and tactics.

Tomb Kings were a challenge, but not unbeatable. VC just always felt OP, and once that Vampire hit your lines there wasn't much you could do a lot of the time.
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Vampire characters are too powerful. If a VC player makes a Master Necromancer the general, he has to use sophisticated tactics, but with a vampire lord, you can win a lot of battles by just forcing your blender into combat with the enemy's center lines.

Games Workshop is pretty bad at army creep. Tomb Kings was the second army book they ever released. Vampire Counts was one of the last books released. That means they are more powerful. The TK have a lot of cool ideas that rock in theory and fail in implementation.
 
Scalenex said:
Vampire characters are too powerful. If a VC player makes a Master Necromancer the general, he has to use sophisticated tactics, but with a vampire lord, you can win a lot of battles by just forcing your blender into combat with the enemy's center lines.

Games Workshop is pretty bad at army creep. Tomb Kings was the second army book they ever released. Vampire Counts was one of the last books released. That means they are more powerful. The TK have a lot of cool ideas that rock in theory and fail in implementation.
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Vampire Counts are well balanced in 8th edition. They find themselves somewhere in the middle of the pack. Unfortunately it is the TK that find themselves under-powered compared to the other armies.


As for Vampire characters being too powerful, other armies can field a multitude of extremely powerful characters as well. For example (but not limited to):
  • WoC - Unkillable Hortennse Lord or the Daemon Prince
  • Bretonnia - Flying HKB lord
  • Lizardmen - Oldblood or Scar-vet
  • Empire - Van Horstmann's Speculum wielding character
  • Ogre Kingdoms - Fully kitted out Ogre Tyrant
  • DoC - Greater Daemons
  • Dwarfs - fully kitted out Dwarf lord can be terrifying (although admittedly quite slow)
  • Dark Elves - Reverse Ward save character

And that is before we even consider uber powerful spell casters, of which there are many.

So yes, a Vampire Lord is extremely powerful, but fluff-wise it should be and game-wise they pay a lot of points for it. They are definitely worth it, but the VC army is not overpowered because of them.
 
Lizards of Renown said:
Terry Pratchet book series. The entire world is held up by 4 elephants on the top of a gigantic turtle that is swimming through the cosmos (or something like that, I didn't actually read the series)
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My first thought as well, but there is a lack of elephants ;)

Grrr, Imrahil
 
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