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The Random Thread of Random Randomness

NIGHTBRINGER said:
Am I safe to interpret your lack of response as a hard "no" to both questions? :D
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Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl said:
No you are not, I’m still working on it.
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By both questions, I meant:
  1. Have you read their book?
  2. Played against them?

So at the very least, my interpretation was at least 50% right...
Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl said:
I haven’t actually played them, that is true, but only because there were no players in my area who played them.
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Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl said:
I imagine my dislike for Vampires first started at school when I got pissed at everyone’s obsession with Twilight. My generation can be somewhat embarrassing a lot of the time.
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Twilight definitely went through a very popular phase. I remember a time when just about every girl was reading those books.

I feel bad for the poor VC, that they have to endure such an association.

Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl said:
The fact that GW gave them so much more love than Tomb Kings who deserved the respect far more then proceeded to wind me up throughout the latter years of 8th Edition Fantasy
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I like TK much more. It is a shame that the VC where so much more popular with the fan base. I suspect that is why VC received a 7th edition book and TK did not.

As far as 8th edition goes, TK got the short end of the straw being released so early in the cycle. Looks like the VC author, Phil Kelly, learned from the mistakes that Cruddace made with the TK book.

Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl said:
The fact I’ve just never been a fan of Gothic horror also contributes to it
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Fair enough. I have never been a big Vampire fan either, but I really enjoyed the Netflix Castlevania series.
 
I have not played against VC, but I have read their rulebook (back when I was deciding what other armies I would collect after LM). I think they're a decent army, but I didn't like them enough to put in the effort to collect them. I'm not amazingly anti-Goth or anything, they just didn't appeal enough.

Then I read TK and that was it. I love ancient Egypt and the idea of being able to potentially ally them with my LM was too much. Had to be done. :D
 
Lizards of Renown said:
I have not played against VC, but I have read their rulebook (back when I was deciding what other armies I would collect after LM). I think they're a decent army, but I didn't like them enough to put in the effort to collect them. I'm not amazingly anti-Goth or anything, they just didn't appeal enough.

Then I read TK and that was it. I love ancient Egypt and the idea of being able to potentially ally them with my LM was too much. Had to be done. :D
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The Tomb Kings definitely have a much cooler aesthetic in my opinion. I love the Tomb Kings lore, art and especially their models. I think Vampire Counts have a more unique playstyle. Between summoning, ethereal units and mass healing (because Tomb Kings healing is a joke), they play very differently to the other armies of Warhammer. Also, I hate the fact that the Tomb Kings can't march at all; it really limits them.

That said, I love my Tomb Kings army and would never trade them away for VC, even if VC seem really fun to play.
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
The Tomb Kings definitely have a much cooler aesthetic in my opinion. I love the Tomb Kings lore, art and especially their models. I think Vampire Counts have a more unique playstyle. Between summoning, ethereal units and mass healing (because Tomb Kings healing is a joke), they play very differently to the other armies of Warhammer. Also, I hate the fact that the Tomb Kings can't march at all; it really limits them.

That said, I love my Tomb Kings army and would never trade them away for VC, even if VC seem really fun to play.
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How is TK's healing a joke? Any time a spell is cast the affected unit regains wounds. Cast a sufficiently large signature spell and you heal everyone within 24 inches. Have a couple of meaningless level one wizards so you can try to cast it several times a turn.

I guess I need to take another look at the rules as I am a total newbie on TK's, but it seems pretty good...
 
Lizards of Renown said:
How is TK's healing a joke? Any time a spell is cast the affected unit regains wounds. Cast a sufficiently large signature spell and you heal everyone within 24 inches. Have a couple of meaningless level one wizards so you can try to cast it several times a turn.
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Compare the healing ability of the TK against that of the VC and it becomes quite apparent. It is usually a good practice to view the TK healing as a nice side benefit, but nothing more. Essentially...
  • VC can heal more models the TK
  • VC can increase the size of some of their units beyond their starting numbers
  • The restless dead only heals D3+1 wounds worth of models. On a average that works out to 3.
  • Animated Constructs can only recover a single lost wound per magic phase
  • The signature spell (Khsar's Incantation of the Desert Wind) can't target (and thereby heal) units engaged in close combat

As for casting Desert Wind at the 24" inch range multiple times per phase... that really isn't feasible in an actual game. At the extended range the casting value is 16+, which will eat through even the TK's impressive power dice pool pretty quickly. Also, at such casting costs, you risk miscasts. Plus, why would you want to take multiple level 1's just to give them Desert Wind. The points cost to do so adds up rather quickly, and the spell is mediocre at best (and becomes nearly useless once most units are engaged in CC).
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
Compare the healing ability of the TK against that of the VC and it becomes quite apparent. It is usually a good practice to view the TK healing as a nice side benefit, but nothing more. Essentially...
  • VC can heal more models the TK
  • VC can increase the size of some of their units beyond their starting numbers
  • The restless dead only heals D3+1 wounds worth of models. On a average that works out to 3.
  • Animated Constructs can only recover a single lost wound per magic phase
  • The signature spell (Khsar's Incantation of the Desert Wind) can't target (and thereby heal) units engaged in close combat

As for casting Desert Wind at the 24" inch range multiple times per phase... that really isn't feasible in an actual game. At the extended range the casting value is 16+, which will eat through even the TK's impressive power dice pool pretty quickly. Also, at such casting costs, you risk miscasts. Plus, why would you want to take multiple level 1's just to give them Desert Wind. The points cost to do so adds up rather quickly, and the spell is mediocre at best (and becomes nearly useless once most units are engaged in CC).
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Bugger.
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
Compare the healing ability of the TK against that of the VC and it becomes quite apparent. It is usually a good practice to view the TK healing as a nice side benefit, but nothing more. Essentially...
  • VC can heal more models the TK
  • VC can increase the size of some of their units beyond their starting numbers
  • The restless dead only heals D3+1 wounds worth of models. On a average that works out to 3.
  • Animated Constructs can only recover a single lost wound per magic phase
  • The signature spell (Khsar's Incantation of the Desert Wind) can't target (and thereby heal) units engaged in close combat

As for casting Desert Wind at the 24" inch range multiple times per phase... that really isn't feasible in an actual game. At the extended range the casting value is 16+, which will eat through even the TK's impressive power dice pool pretty quickly. Also, at such casting costs, you risk miscasts. Plus, why would you want to take multiple level 1's just to give them Desert Wind. The points cost to do so adds up rather quickly, and the spell is mediocre at best (and becomes nearly useless once most units are engaged in CC).
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Sooooo..... I have a question...

Signature spell is an augment spell...

You can targets units in combat with an augment spell...

Fine, they can't move. But the spell is still CAST on them so they'd still get the wounds benefit...

Right? :confused:
 
Lizards of Renown said:
Sooooo..... I have a question...

Signature spell is an augment spell...

You can targets units in combat with an augment spell...

Fine, they can't move. But the spell is still CAST on them so they'd still get the wounds benefit...

Right? :confused:
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Unfortunately, no. The spell clearly defines that it only targets unengaged units (so only units not engaged in close combat)...

Capture.JPG

Additionally, it was further clarified in the Tomb Kings FAQ:
Capture2.JPG
 
@NIGHTBRINGER @Lizards of Renown : I have played against VC many times. I have played AS VC a few times, but not past 7th edition for either. VC were, during the time I played as/against them, very much a deathstar-hero army. Lots of chaff designed with one purpose in mind: Getting your big, badass Vampire into melee with the enemy army. Very few LORD-LEVEL characters could go toe-to-toe with even a Thrall, let alone a Count. I managed to lock a tooled up Vampire Count to a standstill with my Dark Elf Lord back in 6th edition when they did the Dark Elf Cityguard list in White Dwarf, but a draw was the best I could manage. I respected the VC, I would fight against them depending on the player, but I did not like them much as they always felt kind of OP.

Tomb Kings, on the other hand. I was NEVER good at running that army and gave up fairly quickly (before the really FUN stuff was added to the army - no Necrosphinx for me, they didn't have them back in 5th edition/6th edition). But I loved playing against Tomb Kings. Their resurrection trick was annoying, but I could live with it. Ushtabi were dangerous, but could be managed. Generic Dogs of War could fight them to a draw without using stupid tricks. My Cityguard were usually 50/50 against them, depending on luck and tactics.

Tomb Kings were a challenge, but not unbeatable. VC just always felt OP, and once that Vampire hit your lines there wasn't much you could do a lot of the time.
 
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