Tutorial The Old World Lizardmen Army PDF is out and free

[discomute]

I am really starting to like armour of meteoric iron for a carnosaur

Who is attacking a ws5, tough 6 without any AP? Probably no one. For 20 points (instead of 40 for silvered steel) you're getting an AC you'd probably have anyway

Difference could be mass shooting armies who are trying to wound you with 50 at 3 hits

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

I don't yet have a comment about the fairness/meta applications of losing cold blooded on panic but I do dislike the lore of losing it. We are an old race very happy to give our lives in service of the old ones. No one is unbreakable but I felt it really fit our theme. Equally, only on lore, I never liked cold blooded applying to stupidity

We don't lose it for Panic, we keep it for Fear, Terror and Panic, but not for Break Tests.

 

[discomute]

We don't lose it for Panic, we keep it for Fear, Terror and Panic, but not for Break Tests.

Typo.sorry I meant break

 

[Rimbo]

So I've been reading the core rules and our hunting packs become even worse. Warbeasts have Undisciplined special rule which says that they cant use Inspiring Presence from General and Hold your Ground rule from BSB. The wording is "a unit with this special rule cannot", so even though the hunting packs have mixed troop types this rule still applies. I wonder if it is intentional, but RAW Salamanders and Razordons have just Ld5 from Skink handlers, no rerolls.

On a more positive note I think Troglodon is pretty good. Giving Furious Charge even only once per game is quite good. And of course Oracle is a Wizard now. Do you have any ideas how to best run him in a list?

 

[Acehilator]

@Rimbo I am going to use the Troglodon too, but sadly I don't think it's any good. T5 5W 5+ is not a great defensive profile for 200 points, can't increase the wizard level, can't equip magic items. I am planning to use "Glittering Robe" (Illusion signature spell) with it, trying to keep it alive. It also needs a spell with as low a casting value as possible. Offensive output also leaves much to be desired.

Currently building the model, damn it's so cool.

 

[Blastoize]

I don't like that it competes with Stegs for spot.
In a sense I think it is the same it has always been - jack of all trades, master of none.
It can slighly boost your magic, help on flanks and support your blocks.
However, I think it could be nice, it is a monster with nice Movement, causes terror and has higher Ld (at 8) with Immune to Psychology and Stubborn. has a couple stomp attacks and can shoot venom spray, which could be nice vs high Toughness oponents.
It is a shame you cannot bump it to lvl 2, but it could be an unnecesary point investment.
I am trying to create a 3 carnosaur list, but you are then strongly limited in magic item point allowance, although it fits in Trog as a magic support. Might not be enough though .)

 

[discomute]

I don't like that it competes with Stegs for spot.
In a sense I think it is the same it has always been - jack of all trades, master of none.
It can slighly boost your magic, help on flanks and support your blocks.
However, I think it could be nice, it is a monster with nice Movement, causes terror and has higher Ld (at 8) with Immune to Psychology and Stubborn. has a couple stomp attacks and can shoot venom spray, which could be nice vs high Toughness oponents.
It is a shame you cannot bump it to lvl 2, but it could be an unnecesary point investment.
I am trying to create a 3 carnosaur list, but you are then strongly limited in magic item point allowance, although it fits in Trog as a magic support. Might not be enough though .)

This is exactly how I feel, our list is all over the place in terms of power, but the carnos and stegs are up there. I don't think there will be a place for the trog in competitive lists but it is still fine. On a tier list id say it is a B.

 

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

Definitely true! They sure look bad is my only real take. Maybe not as bad as cold ones, but still not good.

Regarding ld, we are a lot less brave, that is for sure

Yeah. Slann BSB now pretty much auto-take for his command range

 

[Ersh]

So...that huge nerf to Cold Blooded in The Old World...and the only unit with an added Ld value is Chameleon Skinks. How are y'all taking that?

This, and the Stupidity rule - that can't use Genertal's Ld. As a result - Cold Ones are not reliable or even useful. Monsters will be our meta.

Btw, are Rupperducks any good now? I had a problem with them before, they tried to attack anything that moves, when I needed them to to hunt enemy artillery.

offtopic: I also miss different marks of Old Ones so much. They added so much to the spirit of an army.

 

[discomute]

This, and the Stupidity rule - that can't use Genertal's Ld. As a result - Cold Ones are not reliable or even useful. Monsters will be our meta.

Btw, are Rupperducks any good now? I had a problem with them before, they tried to attack anything that moves, when I needed them to to hunt enemy artillery.

My absolute favourite unit and I think they are an F, maybe a D.

50% of charging if they can, given their massive movement and swiftstride, not to mention 360 degrees charge range, this is going to be a lot of time. Its fine enough for a bloodthirster to have it, it becomes battle of chaffe vs worthwhile targets... but light cav? They need to be used properly.

offtopic: I also miss different marks of Old Ones so much. They added so much to the spirit of an army.

Yeah agree but I guess not much in the scheme of things.

 

[discomute]

What do we all think about disciples of the old ones? There seems to be a lot of love for wandering deliberations but I'm not totally sold on it. And... Honestly not a lot looks great to me.

 

[Acehilator]

Becalming Cogitation and Higher State of Mind are both great, too. Like, really really good.

 

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

What do we all think about disciples of the old ones? There seems to be a lot of love for wandering deliberations but I'm not totally sold on it. And... Honestly not a lot looks great to me.

IMO the problem with anything other than wandering deliberations is that the Slann can't join temple guard.

Every discipline has spells with a range of "self" or "combat"

Obviously we never want the slann in combat. He is S3 with 1 attacks so no offensive output without wasting stupid resources to make him just meh. And he is likely your general and BSB. So best to just avoid losing those to the enemy. So the spells you can roll up are just not that effective if you get unlucky. You'll probably often be finding yourself taking the signature or lizardmen spells and quite possibly 2 of your 4 spells will be from these.
Edit- I was mistaken and thought lore of lustria let you swap in addition to a signature spell. It's Either/Or, not both.

So if you are good with that, I think becalming is pretty good on a battle or elemental mage priest

I'd actually avoid a high magic one unless the meta really becomes about controlling magic. Then a becalming mage with drain magic just will control the winds. And then if you roll walk between worlds or corporeal unmasking just take the lizard spells.

 

[Ersh]

What do we all think about disciples of the old ones? There seems to be a lot of love for wandering deliberations but I'm not totally sold on it. And... Honestly not a lot looks great to me.

WD is for tournaments - when you have random opponents with very different armies. I need to double-check, but as far as I remember - all signature magic spells still have their lore rule, and that makes WD even more versatile (but still not powerful, signature spells are just signature spells).
Ofc, if you fight a specific opponent - a more "personal" approach with a specific lore of magic would be better.

Lore of Lustria looks... Like something that has its jungle theme, but was created just to be thematic, not useful. I hope it will be changed later.

All Disciplines look good, but some are too expensive IMO, and also only a single one could be purchased, so some look more like "army list is done, but I have X more points to spend somewhere".

Add: yeah, I just checked all army lists - before we could choose several disciplines, now only one per Slann =(

 

[airjamy]

I don't like that it competes with Stegs for spot.
In a sense I think it is the same it has always been - jack of all trades, master of none.
It can slighly boost your magic, help on flanks and support your blocks.
However, I think it could be nice, it is a monster with nice Movement, causes terror and has higher Ld (at 8) with Immune to Psychology and Stubborn. has a couple stomp attacks and can shoot venom spray, which could be nice vs high Toughness oponents.
It is a shame you cannot bump it to lvl 2, but it could be an unnecesary point investment.
I am trying to create a 3 carnosaur list, but you are then strongly limited in magic item point allowance, although it fits in Trog as a magic support. Might not be enough though .)

Issue with stegs is that you you have to use the skink ws when hitting back because of the howdah rule. His stomps are nice though, I think you want to go Ancient all the time.

 

[airjamy]

Becalming Cogitation and Higher State of Mind are both great, too. Like, really really good.

I really like Becalming as well. Makes it so you can dispell their lvl 4 but they can't do the same to you, which is big.

 

[Explodingzeb]

IMO the problem with anything other than wandering deliberations is that the Slann can't join temple guard.

Every discipline has spells with a range of "self" or "combat"

Obviously we never want the slann in combat. He is S3 with 1 attacks so no offensive output without wasting stupid resources to make him just meh. And he is likely your general and BSB. So best to just avoid losing those to the enemy.

So the spells you can roll up are just not that effective if you get unlucky. You'll probably often be finding yourself taking the signature or lizardmen spells, and quite possibly 2 of your 4 spells will be from these.

So if you are good with that, I think becalming is pretty good on a battle or elemental mage priest

I'd actually avoid a high magic one unless the meta really becomes about controlling magic. Then a becalming mage with drain magic just will control the winds. And then if you roll walk between worlds or corporeal unmasking just take the lizard spells.

The Lore Familiar magic item could help with this as it lets you choose which 4 spells you want from your selected lore of magic. My only problem with this is that it competes for your arcane item slot with the Cupped Hands of the Old Ones.

 

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

The Lore Familiar magic item could help with this as it lets you choose which 4 spells you want from your selected lore of magic. My only problem with this is that it competes for your arcane item slot with the Cupped Hands of the Old Ones.

To me lore familiar is a trap when we have Wandering Deliberations that doesn't use up the arcane item slot. Cupped hands is just so nice. Not only does it basically save us from miscast, but it basically is an AOE feedback scroll as well if you target enemy mages.

There isn't alot of magical items I feel I need to put on my slann otherwise. And then lore familiar is always more worth its points on lower level mages IMO, where controlling your spells is more important. The slann get 4 rolling so chances are you are going to get the spell you want. Even more so if one spell you want is a signature or Lustrian lore. Really just using this to avoid the self/combat spells, which you can just do with wandering.

If you are really trying to control magic I could see a high magic slann with becalming and a lore familiar being good though.
Take drain, khaine, fiery and shield of saphery or apotheosis

Then probably a grub, and scrolls and/or healing potions depending on points and what's needed.

I will say the more I talk about a becalming slann the more I like it as well though. 60/40 split on wandering vs becalming. Really need to see what the meta becomes.

But now realizing Lore of Lustria swaps is in-lieu of a signature spell swap and not in addition too (I thought before you could do both), I'm in a way more liking wandering because I can intentionally chose one of those and drain magic still. If anti-monster is really prevalent, apotheosis on my old blood will be nice.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

What do we all think about disciples of the old ones? There seems to be a lot of love for wandering deliberations but I'm not totally sold on it. And... Honestly not a lot looks great to me.

Becalming Cogitation and Higher State of Mind are both great, too. Like, really really good.

IMO the problem with anything other than wandering deliberations higher state of mind is that the Slann can't join temple guard.

I honestly think Higher State of Mind is the best one by a long way - gives the Slann the same benefits of Ethereal as in 8th, and no longer the penalty of not being able to join units because he can't anyway. It gives your Slann immunity to pretty much 80% of what the enemy may try to throw at him, and leaves you free to take Magic Items specifically to protect him against Magical Attacks, the one thing that gets through Ethereal.

Lore of Lustria looks... Like something that has its jungle theme, but was created just to be thematic, not useful. I hope it will be changed later.

I fully disagree, the Lore of Lustria is most useful - Skinks can take it too so can use Apotheosis to heal your Slann, and Monsoon is a very nice counter to enemy shooting which of course we hate.

 

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

I honestly think Higher State of Mind is the best one by a long way - gives the Slann the same benefits of Ethereal as in 8th, and no longer the penalty of not being able to join units because he can't anyway. It gives your Slann immunity to pretty much 80% of what the enemy may try to throw at him, and leaves you free to take Magic Items specifically to protect him against Magical Attacks, the one thing that gets through Ethereal.

If you take TG though, you can easily shift off of the slann. And then fly is going to make the big guy hard to catch in combat, as you can always just place him somewhere hard to get to in your turn. The FAQ made it clear he can't be cannon sniped if he is near a unit of TG, and lastly he has a 5+ Ward.

I'm just not sold he needs to be immune to stuff