8th Ed. The official guide to using the 8th edition Slann!(Finished)

[kamikazi180]

I knew there was a loophole, sorry No clue about Dwarfs. So short, I didn't even realise they're there
So, I'm now gonna use these 4 Disciplines: Focus of Mystery, The Focused Rumination, Unfathomable Presence and The Becalming Cogitation. I'll also take Divine Plaque of Protection.

Thanks for the pointer

 

[strewart]

Would be cool, but no. I'm pretty sure the wording for that has been changed in the FAQ now anyway, and even if it hasn't it specifically said only while casting spells does he raise up above the unit.

 

[atimchula]

Would be cool, but no. I'm pretty sure the wording for that has been changed in the FAQ now anyway, and even if it hasn't it specifically said only while casting spells does he raise up above the unit.

I thought about this and I actually take my slann off the clear spike he comes with when someone tries to cast at him because they can't see him over a hill if he isn't floating up. And the rules clearly state he doesn't float all the time.

 

[strewart]

Yeah that is a bit annoying now that TLOS is in but the rules for the Slann actually give it a different height. It is easy when he is in TG, just ignore the Slann and if the opponent can't see the TG they can't shoot the unit. To be honest, when he is on his own I don't think its quite fair to the opposition to drop him down when he is being shot at. I know he only raises up when he is in TG, but technically the model with the stalk is what you get with the kit so thats what really should be used for LoS.

 

[1Legion]

I am really hoping for more posts like these, as I've just started as 8th has come out and need all the help I can get, especially for a newly spawned one such as myself.

 

[Todes]

I dont really like the feedback scroll, i refuse to let a powerfull spell to be cast on my main unit. The Trickster Shard could work for me in a turn that i really need to get some spells to buff my units or to hurt the other guy.

 

[Morr]

Divine plaques is still useful since as you say, the discipline is against mundane attacks. Dwarfs can put a rune on all their warmachines and have magic shooting, most Skaven shooting also counts as magical, any character with magic long range weapons will also count.

Ok, i have a few problems with all of this...

1.) the standard of discipline states, that unit having this standard cant use generals Ld. Now, its rather confusing. If Slann(havind st.of Discipline) and the unit he is in count as 1 unit (like if u gave the standard to a normal bearer), technically this unit cant use his "inspiring presence leadership" and would have to use their own - now 9 instead of 8 - Ld (Slann having ld10 since it says ALL models in the unit)!
U could say Slann counts as a "unit on his own" inside another unit, therefore >>he couldnt use his own Ld, which is ridiculous and is discarded<<, but cuz the unit doesnt count as having the standard (slann has it!--> and he is a unit on his own), they still can use slanns new ld10... This is soooo beyond fishy and rule bending, with this possibility of Slann being bsb and a general! 0o

My point might be totally wrong if theres somewhere something written about this, but i didnt see it yet.
Incidentally, I havent noticed any "point price" for making slann, or scar vet a BSB! Who can be the bsb anyway? Slann, scar vet, oldblood..??

2.) Now, i left WH alone for a few years and now bounced back with the new edition out. Im currently reading (and refreshing my mind) all of the new rules and theres a matter of BSB. Do i understand it correctly that BSB dies if he breaks from COMBAT? If he flees as a charge reaction or panic, he, well flees, but units cant use the re-roll from him?

3.) the matter of feedback scroll and TBC. This is fairly logical, but i just want to make sure... So, when opposing wizard rolls, say, 6 dice, and some are sixes (for example: 6 + 6 + 3 + 2 + 1 + 1 = 19 for a 10+ spell), he has to discard both sixes leaving him with 7 (instead of 19), miscast (since TBC states it prevents IF not the miscast), and broken concentration? Only NOW should u use the feedback scroll to potentially kill the wizz. Otherwise (if he rolled 6+6+5+5+4+2+2 - 12 = 18) the spell would go off (scroll can be used INSTEAD of dispelling) and ur slann (or a tough unit...) would end dead even if bane head finishes the other dude...

I might be catching smoke here, but above really bothers me...

1) When a character is in a unit the unit can automatically use his leadership, or as mentioned by Bibamus yeah the unit uses the highest leadership. The bonus just won't go out to other units besides his own. We do have a unique situation with the general also being the BSB though.

2) Yeah BSB dies if fleeing from combat, very nasty isn't it. And yeah units won't be inspired by him if he is fleeing from something else.

3) Not quite sure what you are asking and sorry if you are well aware of this (you did say you had been away from the game a while) but you know double 6 is a miscast now not double 1? The feedback scroll can be used instead of dispelling, so in the first case the spell did not go off so you cannot attempt to dispel it.

ok thx for the explanation. 1. point clear now. edit: OMG... i have NO idea how i managed to miss the point price for bsb... anyway, lets move on.

as for last point, i know 2 sixes make for IF AND miscast. But heres the catch im trying to figure out! the TBC rule says it ignores sixes and prevents IF.... NOT MISCAST! therefore, it seems obvious the spell counts as going off (miscast -> 2 sixes...), making us able to use the feedback scroll anyway (dunno if thats evil or something, but if u use the feedback first, and than discard the dices...i didnt think of that before, but if all other arguments fail? ). if, after miscast discarded dice make also for failed cast attempt and broken concentration, thats just another bummer for the oposing wizard

but, if my argument is for some reason invalid or put down by an update or something, bane head/TBC combo just plainly blows. potentially blowing up the opposing wizz doesnt make it for me losing slann and all of the temple guard to some initiative spell!

btw, sorc lord on tzeentch disc could always make sure to be more than 24" away from slann, but not from temple guard unit... bye bye slann if something nasty goes off...

 

[Dumbledore]

Here's a sneaky trick that I've found.

Give your Slann General BSB the Standard of Discipline for +1 Ld. You have now paid very few points to get a Ld10 Cold Blooded re-rolling 12" bubble. The +1Ld makes a big difference to break tests where you have lost by quite a margin, especially when the CR loss makes you test on Ld3-6, due to the density of the probability distribution around those numbers (maths talk, basically +1Ld makes a big difference for those nail biting break tests, much more for Cold Blooded than for normal Ld races).

There is some debate on the legality of this (see the banner's entry in BRB), but about 90% of those that I have discussed it with agree that it is legitimate.

 

[Bibamus]

saurus units should normally be steadfast tough, you can revive them if necessary

 

[Jaxxel]

I would add the other lore tactics as you can, I have played a bunch of games with life and honestly, i dont like it that much. I rarely get throne off cause it gets dispelled 90% of the time. and without throne the lore is decent.

I tried Lore of Fire the other night just for fun and wow... Talk about firepower. Gave the ruby ring to a skink priest and would onedice it to try to hit a unit with it so the slann would get the D3 bonus. Lots of pain from that lore...

Im going to keep playtesting all the lores as i can, but so far im really liking the killing power of fire.

You'd be amazed at how many people will let throne go through after you hit them with a few 6 dice dwellers.

This is win. If you smash people a couple times with Dwellers and bring Temple Guard back to life a couple times, no one is going to waste dice on the Throne. Just won't happen!

They will just dispell it with one dice on their magic phase. I had a game where WoC would dispell it on his magic phase then we argued about wether the spells cast with throne still held the buffed value or reverted back to the base value. I wasn't sure so I let him have it. Any thoughts on this?

 

[Bibamus]

same question as: when you cast throne are spells allready cast buffed by it? the question goes to moment of casting or moment of importance. if its moment of casting then you got for the "if it was up when it was casted, its improved" interpretation but if its moment of importance you go for the "is throne of vines up at the moment?".

i'm on the moment of casting side

 

[Ilnar3]

Um no, page 496, lore of life,
Direct quote
It does not change the effects of spells that are already been cast

 

[Bibamus]

ohh.... should read spells more carefully. never used it that way, but i'm still under the impression that once the spell is cast under the effect of throne of vines it remains that way untill it ends, either by dispelling or by reaching its "time" limit

 

[vapor]

They will just dispell it with one dice on their magic phase. I had a game where WoC would dispell it on his magic phase then we argued about wether the spells cast with throne still held the buffed value or reverted back to the base value. I wasn't sure so I let him have it. Any thoughts on this?

That's a really good question. Since it doesn't effect spells already cast, I would say that the reverse is also true: if removed it doesn't take away the bonuses. Definitely in need of an FAQ though.

 

[Ilnar3]

The thing that annoys me is armies with no wizards can roll for the winds of magic in their turns and dispel remains in play spells,
Stupid lawery dwarfs,

 

[MI_Tiger]

I agree that the buffs are not removed if Throne is dispelled as long as it was in effect when the buffed spell was cast.

I have another question related to Throne of Vines. If a Slann miscasts (2 or more 6's) when casting Throne of Vines, does he get the Throne's miscast protection? Basically, does the miscast roll come before or after the spell takes effect?

 

[n810]

yep the spell effect goes off before the miscast...
its in the magic section of the rules where it goes
over the steps of the magis phase.

 

[Bibamus]

confirmed.

the spell is succesfully cast, all effects happen, the the miscast occurs, so with throne of vines, a double 6 means that you ge tall teh ebenfits and then you roll a 2+ to negate the miscast. even if the miscast happened from casting throne of vines.

i was talking to a friend of mine, also a good warhamemr player who plays WOC and DE and he agrees that taking away the bonuses from throne of vines by dispelling it in subsequent phases is unresonable.