AoS The new Battletome: A Discussion

[Killer Angel]

in fairness, that really shouldn't be a thing. Being immune to your own endless spells takes away the one significant limitation endless spells have.

At least, spells can be dispelled/unbinded.
Prayers, on the other hand...

 

[Canas]

At least, spells can be dispelled/unbinded.
Prayers, on the other hand...

yeah I never quite understood why magic is so limited in AoS when you have prayers and other random abilities that easily rival it in power but which completly avoid the main counter of unbinding/dispelling.

Magic in AoS is weird..I hope they come up with a better system at some point. At least endless spells are a cool addition.

 

[Xuil]

Given that it’s not out of the question that we might be allies with Lumineth, I’m curious whether there may be any obvious picks...?

Eltharion looks strong even in the absence of their allegiance abilities. At 220, he’s the easiest pick up ever, if I can take him in my Idoneth. Tides and their teleport spell support him tremendously.
I’m not sure he fills the same ‘gap’ for Seraphon...

 

[Nart]

yeah I never quite understood why magic is so limited in AoS when you have prayers and other random abilities that easily rival it in power but which completly avoid the main counter of unbinding/dispelling.

And some strong abilities are command points. And some are just automatic. Why create weird minigames for others? And it is not high risk/high reward mechanics like it used to be, with miscasts.

 

[Canas]

And some strong abilities are command points. And some are just automatic. Why create weird minigames for others? And it is not high risk/high reward mechanics like it used to be, with miscasts.

to be honest the single worst aspect is the rule of 1, why is that only applicable to spells but prayers/abilities/commands get to be spammed? Not to mention that it completly defeats the point of bringing a coven of wizards. Magic as a system needs an overhaul in AoS.

 

[Nart]

Fortunately, more and more CA can be applied only once per unit/phase. But CP is, at least, is a resource to manage.

 

[Putzfrau]

to be honest the single worst aspect is the rule of 1, why is that only applicable to spells but prayers/abilities/commands get to be spammed? Not to mention that it completly defeats the point of bringing a coven of wizards. Magic as a system needs an overhaul in AoS.

Has 8th ed WHFB flashbacks

Never again. I'd argue magic is already starting to creep back into that "too powerful for its own good" phase.

 

[Nart]

I am not a huge opponent of rule of one mostly because it is "necessary evil". Players will just spam 1-2 broken spells every game.

 

[Xuil]

Without changes to warscrolls, it’s going nowhere. Kroak, Balewind, Cogs and Slann lists throwing out 9 Comet’s calls a turn would be the end of many lists on turn 1.

(And yes, I got excited by the idea... players like me are the reason these rules exist. )

 

[Canas]

Fortunately, more and more CA can be applied only once per unit/phase. But CP is, at least, is a resource to manage.

Meh, I dislike the once per phase abilities. It leads to ability stacking and thus to doomstars. Much prefer having 3-4 buffed units forming a nice battleline than 1 doomstar wrecking through everything (obviously the once per target limitation is good where it concerns buffs/debuffs at the very least )

Has 8th ed WHFB flashbacks

Never again. I'd argue magic is already starting to creep back into that "too powerful for its own good" phase.

Meh, I'd just like it if it were a more interesting system. Not necesarly more powerfull. I'd like to field 2-3 Slann and not feel like I'm wasting them.

Plus, the inconsistencies between spells on the one hand and abilities/prayers/etc on the other is just annoying.

I am not a huge opponent of rule of one mostly because it is "necessary evil". Players will just spam 1-2 broken spells every game.

Without changes to warscrolls, it’s going nowhere. Kroak, Balewind, Cogs and Slann lists throwing out 9 Comet’s calls a turn would be the end of many lists on turn 1.

(And yes, I got excited by the idea... players like me are the reason these rules exist. )

Hence I think we need an overhaul of the complete system. The way it works now rewards spamming broken spells waaaaaaaaay too much. Bring in some diminishing returns, like Kroak's celestial deliverance getting a progressivly more difficult cast value. Have wizards work together to cast empowered spells. Make up some other neat option Can't be too difficult to figure out something halfway more interesting than simply "it's basicly just an ability or prayer, but now your opponent can unbind it!"

 

[Dread Saurian]

sorry im out of the loop. why are they saying we are broken? because we really aren't, at all tzeench is 2-3 times better then we are and they don't fall apart when their heroes die

im sorry you had to go thru that it is a constant problem when playing casualy and takes a lot of practice to fit your lists to your opponents skill

Listen to erta he has a fair opinion and a level headed approach when playing this game

 

[Nart]

Just watched Plymouth Troll Slayers AoS TTS tournament. Looks like 18x salamander list went 3-0. It was literally 4x priests, 30 skinks and all other stuff are salamanders. I don't know, maybe the player was successful not to hit counter match-ups, but I thought, that Sallies at least needed a magic support. Looks like no. Wonder if it is possible to go 5-0 with salamander spam.

 

[Erta Wanderer]

Just watched Plymouth Troll Slayers AoS TTS tournament. Looks like 18x salamander list went 3-0. It was literally 4x priests, 30 skinks and all other stuff are salamanders. I don't know, maybe the player was successful not to hit counter match-ups, but I thought, that Sallies at least needed a magic support. Looks like no. Wonder if it is possible to go 5-0 with salamander spam.

i don't think so there are a bunch of hard counters to salamanders a good gits list with -6 to hit could do it or a hyper anvil like phoenix guard or rend immune units or just any alpha strike army would stop them dead.

 

[Grotpunter]

Just watched Plymouth Troll Slayers AoS TTS tournament. Looks like 18x salamander list went 3-0. It was literally 4x priests, 30 skinks and all other stuff are salamanders. I don't know, maybe the player was successful not to hit counter match-ups, but I thought, that Sallies at least needed a magic support. Looks like no. Wonder if it is possible to go 5-0 with salamander spam.

I feel like it would lose hard in the mirror against Kroak 2x3 Salamanders etc. No magic protection at all. At least it got screens and decent number of bodies. The 18 Salamanders did put out some terrible damage though, despite the Blightkings rolling the 5+ FNP like a boss.

On the flipside Matt flopped hard this time around, despite having done a clean sweep the last tournament. Dont know if it was due to terrible luck, bad plays or people teching against the ranged output meta on TTS.

 

[Diabo]

Just watched Plymouth Troll Slayers AoS TTS tournament. Looks like 18x salamander list went 3-0. It was literally 4x priests, 30 skinks and all other stuff are salamanders. I don't know, maybe the player was successful not to hit counter match-ups, but I thought, that Sallies at least needed a magic support. Looks like no. Wonder if it is possible to go 5-0 with salamander spam.

Hello, I was the shameless chap that ran the 18 salamanders. It was genuinely a meme list but turns out it can do pretty ok. Not sure how viable it would be practically speaking in real life but this is what TTS is for

My match ups were:

Ossiarch Bonereapers with double Crawler;
Cities of Sigmar with Soulscream Bridge; and
Nurgle with Blightking spam (you can find this game on Twitch and YouTube).

I certainly don’t think magic is always going to be a hard counter to my list. The hero support is nice but the list doesn’t fall apart without the Priests in case they get MW sniped. Stellar Tempest is largely neutered due to running more MSU. You could even put one unit of Salamanders out as bait and still have so many teleporting threats on the board that put out insane damage unbuffed and do not bracket. Handlers also provide excellent bodies and conga line objective grabbing.

It’s 150+ wounds on the table with a majority being 4+ save (going up to 3+). It’s insanely fast turn one and the teleporting means you can, somewhat unexpectedly for a list like this, play a cagey conservative game if required and take your opponent into deep waters and strike at the opportune moment.

Next time around a Stegadon or Terradon meme list could be fun.

 

[Killer Angel]

Hello, I was the shameless chap that ran the 18 salamanders. It was genuinely a meme list but turns out it can do pretty ok. Not sure how viable it would be practically speaking in real life.

I think i will post your list in the weird lists and crazy ideas thread, if you don't mind...

 

[Diabo]

I think i will post your list in the weird lists and crazy ideas thread, if you don't mind...

Go for it

I also showcased some naughty tricks you can pull with the Troglodon earlier in the week on the Honest Wargamer:

The Troglodon list is the one I have painted up and am looking forward to use post lockdown

 

[Dread Saurian]

i don't think so there are a bunch of hard counters to salamanders a good gits list with -6 to hit could do it or a hyper anvil like phoenix guard or rend immune units or just any alpha strike army would stop them dead.

I love hearing about seraphon winning.

 

[Dread Saurian]

Hello, I was the shameless chap that ran the 18 salamanders. It was genuinely a meme list but turns out it can do pretty ok. Not sure how viable it would be practically speaking in real life but this is what TTS is for

My match ups were:

Ossiarch Bonereapers with double Crawler;
Cities of Sigmar with Soulscream Bridge; and
Nurgle with Blightking spam (you can find this game on Twitch and YouTube).

I certainly don’t think magic is always going to be a hard counter to my list. The hero support is nice but the list doesn’t fall apart without the Priests in case they get MW sniped. Stellar Tempest is largely neutered due to running more MSU. You could even put one unit of Salamanders out as bait and still have so many teleporting threats on the board that put out insane damage unbuffed and do not bracket. Handlers also provide excellent bodies and conga line objective grabbing.

It’s 150+ wounds on the table with a majority being 4+ save (going up to 3+). It’s insanely fast turn one and the teleporting means you can, somewhat unexpectedly for a list like this, play a cagey conservative game if required and take your opponent into deep waters and strike at the opportune moment.

Next time around a Stegadon or Terradon meme list could be fun.

From one meme list to a another cheers

 

[Krissey]

Hello, I was the shameless chap that ran the 18 salamanders. It was genuinely a meme list but turns out it can do pretty ok. Not sure how viable it would be practically speaking in real life but this is what TTS is for

My match ups were:

Ossiarch Bonereapers with double Crawler;
Cities of Sigmar with Soulscream Bridge; and
Nurgle with Blightking spam (you can find this game on Twitch and YouTube).

I certainly don’t think magic is always going to be a hard counter to my list. The hero support is nice but the list doesn’t fall apart without the Priests in case they get MW sniped. Stellar Tempest is largely neutered due to running more MSU. You could even put one unit of Salamanders out as bait and still have so many teleporting threats on the board that put out insane damage unbuffed and do not bracket. Handlers also provide excellent bodies and conga line objective grabbing.

It’s 150+ wounds on the table with a majority being 4+ save (going up to 3+). It’s insanely fast turn one and the teleporting means you can, somewhat unexpectedly for a list like this, play a cagey conservative game if required and take your opponent into deep waters and strike at the opportune moment.

Next time around a Stegadon or Terradon meme list could be fun.

Thank you for the memes, I enjoy lists for fun too. It's even better that it's actually viable/strong xD