AoS The new Battletome: A Discussion

[Canas]

It almost seems that our whole new battletome has been rushed out. which is sad and ridiculous at the same time.

I meant this more in general, not just for our tome.

Though in our case it's especially noticeable since we have subfactions which themselves have subfactions which makes us a weird odd-one out. Imho, I almost feel like our constelations should really just be battalions, with the only proper subfactions being coalesced versus starborne.

 

[Grotpunter]

I think it is because we assume/wish that every subfaction and batallion needs to be equality balanced, which I dont think is their intention.

It seems to me that they are made with different intentions and aimed at different people/player skill in mind etc.

 

[Putzfrau]

It almost seems that our whole new battletome has been rushed out. which is sad and ridiculous at the same time.

I dunno, i think we have one of the best books released in a long time. Tons of good options, lots of different, powerful builds, good tricks, good synergies /shrug

What makes you feel like it's rushed?

 

[Killer Angel]

Eltharion's rules have been leaked.
As predicted, new army = overpowered rules. How exciting...

 

[Killer Angel]

I dunno, i think we have one of the best books released in a long time. Tons of good options, lots of different, powerful builds, good tricks, good synergies /shrug

What makes you feel like it's rushed?

poor internal balance; weird abilities that can be exceptionally strong or useless (scaly skin); abilities that are poorly thought-up (cold-blooded, which should be evidently useful but is more detrimental to us); bad written rules that needed immediate clarifications via FAQ; awful rules for the only new "model" that GW gave us, which by RAW cannot be used in tournaments…

i like our battletome, but i cannot say it is a well done product.

 

[Canas]

I dunno, i think we have one of the best books released in a long time. Tons of good options, lots of different, powerful builds, good tricks, good synergies /shrug

What makes you feel like it's rushed?

- The sheer amount of confusing and badly phrased rules.
- The RSE, the only proper new model, being a confusing mess which relies on convoluted tactics to even begin being usefull
- A lot of stuff being obviously flawed (or outright detrimental in the case of coldblooded). And altough a minor model like say the chief on ripper being underwhelming isn't exactly the end of the world, a considerable chunk of the flawed stuff is fairly important (again, coldblooded, a freaking faction ability...)

Yeah, there's plenty of good options, a large variance and some very nice things. But the amount of mistakes and just generally weird stuff in the battletome does make it feel a bit half-assed.

Eltharion's rules have been leaked.
As predicted, new army = overpowered rules. How exciting...

what's been shown exactly?

 

[Putzfrau]

- The sheer amount of confusing and badly phrased rules.
- The RSE, the only proper new model, being a confusing mess which relies on convoluted tactics to even begin being usefull
- A lot of stuff being obviously flawed (or outright detrimental in the case of coldblooded). And altough a minor model like say the chief on ripper being underwhelming isn't exactly the end of the world, a considerable chunk of the flawed stuff is fairly important (again, coldblooded, a freaking faction ability...)

Yeah, there's plenty of good options, a large variance and some very nice things. But the amount of mistakes and just generally weird stuff in the battletome does make it feel a bit half-assed.

I mean, the seraphon book certainly isn't the only book guilty of having "confusing and badly phrased" stuff in it, and i'd say the sheer quantity of good to great stuff more than makes up for it.

it's a book where you can take any of the four "factions" and build a very competitive list. That's essentially unheard of.

The posted a sneak peek of Eltharion's rules on the warhammer community site. Dunno if there was more.

 

[Canas]

I mean, the seraphon book certainly isn't the only book guilty of having "confusing and badly phrased" stuff in it, and i'd say the sheer quantity of good to great stuff more than makes up for it.

it's a book where you can take any of the four "factions" and build a very competitive list. That's essentially unheard of.

The posted a sneak peek of Eltharion's rules on the warhammer community site. Dunno if there was more.

The main reason all 4 subfactions work is because the core is relativly solid, not necesarly because all four factions are (equally) good.

As for us not being the only one with confusing or badly phrased stuff. No, but it does seem to be worse in our case. Especially when you take into account the amount stuff that's just obviously underwhelming. Though I guess that might be cuz we also have one of the larger tomes with more unit options.

It's just kind of dissapointing.

 

[Grotpunter]

Eltharion's rules have been leaked.
As predicted, new army = overpowered rules. How exciting...

I mean.. He is nasty, but we still dont know his movement or point cost. Looks to easily be 250+. He will die fast to MWs though. It sounds like it will be a named character, in which case no trait or artefact.

 

[Xuil]

- And altough a minor model like say the chief on ripper being underwhelming isn't exactly the end of the world

I keep seeing him being touted as absolute dead weight... but the fact is he is a cheap, extremely mobile Skink Hero with 4 (6 with a CP and the right constellation) attacks.
He is a prime pick for a “Master of the Star Rituals” that can keep up with a teleporting Skink blob and quite a good carrier for the Venom Dagger.

Maybe I’m just forcing him to work, but so far he’s solid in my Fangs lists.

 

[Canas]

I mean.. He is nasty, but we still dont know his movement or point cost. Looks to easily be 250+. He will die fast to MWs though. It sounds like it will be a named character, in which case no trait or artefact.

well given that he's unmounted and not a monster he seems to be stupidly powerfull for a single guy on foot. Unless he is stuck with a mere 5-6 wounds and can be blown apart by mortal wounds instantly he'l be damn powerfull. And that's of course ignoring any potential synergy. If he can somehow be protected from mortal wounds, or better yet get a guaranteed deepstrike he'd be quite amazing.

I keep seeing him being touted as absolute dead weight... but the fact is he is a cheap, extremely mobile Skink Hero with 4 (6 with a CP and the right constellation) attacks.
He is a prime pick for a “Master of the Star Rituals” that can keep up with a teleporting Skink blob and quite a good carrier for the Venom Dagger.

Maybe I’m just forcing him to work, but so far he’s solid in my Fangs lists.

He isn't a proper dead weight, but he has some rather glaring flaws that put him in rather a weird spot:

- 5 wounds with a 5+ save mean he's squishy beyond believe. Which, given that he's a melee hero who's supposed to get in the thick of it is weird.
- He has no battalion, so it's difficult to actually fit him in your army (seriously why didn't the chiefs come with a dedicated battalion for a wing of flyers?)
- His command ability is a bit underwhelming, especially now that it no longer stacks. So even in a dedicated list he's a bit meh.

Give him some protection so he doesn't instantly get blown up, and give him a ripper battalion for an extra bonus option and he becomes a proper option. But right now you basicly have to tailor your list around him. And even then your opponent can just shut him down with ease since he's made out of wet tissue paper even if you do come up with something clever.

 

[Putzfrau]

The main reason all 4 subfactions work is because the core is relativly solid, not necesarly because all four factions are (equally) good.

As for us not being the only one with confusing or badly phrased stuff. No, but it does seem to be worse in our case. Especially when you take into account the amount stuff that's just obviously underwhelming. Though I guess that might be cuz we also have one of the larger tomes with more unit options.

It's just kind of dissapointing.

I dunno, i guess i just find it hard to be disappointed about a book with ~3 A tier builds. It's such a breath of fresh air when we were stuck with essentially Thunderquake or Shadowstrike for a billion years.

 

[Killer Angel]

He will die fast to MWs though.

The things immune to MWs are not that many, mws is a common weakness.
WE can deal mws, but for many other armies he will be a pain in the ass.

 

[Lizerd]

The things immune to MWs are not that many, mws is a common weakness.
WE can deal mws, but for many other armies he will be a pain in the ass.

mm mortal wounds, saurus knights, scar vet, and skink starpriest

 

[Xuil]

mm mortal wounds, saurus knights, scar vet, and skink starpriest

We don’t know yet whether lumineth are going to be able to mess with the activation wars. I’m betting on ‘almost certainly’. In which case we’ll want to shoot or blast him off the table, or bury him under rocks; the best option is going to depend on his movement and wound stats.

 

[Erta Wanderer]

We don’t know yet whether lumineth are going to be able to mess with the activation wars. I’m betting on ‘almost certainly’. In which case we’ll want to shoot or blast him off the table, or bury him under rocks; the best option is going to depend on his movement and wound stats.

we do know they have activation nonsense they can swing with 2 units every time they fight

 

[Canas]

I dunno, i guess i just find it hard to be disappointed about a book with ~3 A tier builds. It's such a breath of fresh air when we were stuck with essentially Thunderquake or Shadowstrike for a billion years.

meh, I find it hard to properly enjoy the good things when so much is clearly flawed and could've been better. Overall I'm happy with it, it's a lot better and healthier than it was before. But the amount of obvious flaws just put a damper on things. Right now it's merely good, while a little bit more effort could've made it amazing.

we do know they have activation nonsense they can swing with 2 units every time they fight

o yeah, that rule is going to be such a disaster to deal with... So far all the actuall rules we've seen from them are rather overpowering. I do hope they show what their weakness is supposed to be soon...

 

[Killer Angel]

so far all the actuall rules we've seen from them are rather overpowering. I do hope they show what their weakness is supposed to be soon...

I fear you will be disappointed.
It's a new army, and even more a elven one. It's not going to be "balanced", it's going to rock hard, to please the wet dreams of some sucker who will think he is the greatest tactician ever.

 

[Erta Wanderer]

o yeah, that rule is going to be such a disaster to deal with... So far all the actuall rules we've seen from them are rather overpowering. I do hope they show what their weakness is supposed to be soon...

i don't have much hope that they wont be the next stupid broken thing. the rules we have seen so far are all good not a dud among them. the war scrolls we have seen are good. they have a roster to rival the old leagasy armies. they have all the basses covered monsters both flying and not, cav, line men, ranged, heavy hammers(literally). i would be shocked if their magic(and hence buffing) wasn't top of the game.
we have always known that GW has a hard on for elves and it seems to be continuing

 

[Canas]

I'd be curious to know why GW seems to like elves so much.