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AoS The new Battletome: A Discussion

Are you optimistic about our new battletome?

  • Yes

    Votes: 160 76.2%

  • No

    Votes: 20 9.5%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 30 14.3%
  • Total voters
    210
Lizerd said:
What heroes are you thinking of bringing? I’m guessing and Oldblood and sunblood and some starpriests?
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Slann, oldblood, sunblood, starseer.

I actually dont love the starpriest. Hes going to instantly die against anything with shooting and it's only within 12 inches for his buff so he cant even hide.

I have a version of the list that loses another 10 saurus and geminids for the starpriest.

It only really pays off against obr but saurus actually trade okay with mortek guard even without it.
 
Give him the Gryph Feather charm and stick him close to a blob of Sauras. That's a -2 to be hit and he's cheap/small enough to be forgotten as they try to deal with your other things. On top of that, if you lose him, the effectiveness of your army is only deminished in a MW output capacity in the long run.
 
Carnikang said:
Give him the Gryph Feather charm and stick him close to a blob of Sauras. That's a -2 to be hit and he's cheap/small enough to be forgotten as they try to deal with your other things. On top of that, if you lose him, the effectiveness of your army is only deminished in a MW output capacity in the long run.
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No one is going to forget about a 5 wound unit with buffs that strong.

Obr catapults assuming -2 to hit and no bonus attacks to the catapult has a 66% chance of killing it outright.

With even 2 catapults (or 1 extra attack on 1) hes dead first turn.

And he costs 120 points. That's the downside.

Starseer buff is in the charge phase so you can hide him and his spell is more valuable.
 
Putzfrau said:
No one is going to forget about a 5 wound unit with buffs that strong.

Obr catapults assuming -2 to hit and no bonus attacks to the catapult has a 66% chance of killing it outright.

With even 2 catapults (or 1 extra attack on 1) hes dead first turn.

And he costs 120 points. That's the downside.

Starseer buff is in the charge phase so you can hide him and his spell is more valuable.
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Disagree on the ease of hiding. The Starpriest is physically diminutive compared to the Starseer. His buff also doesn't require LoS last I read....
So bring in a Tree Lord and pop a Wyldewood up and hide him behind it.
 
Carnikang said:
Disagree on the ease of hiding. The Starpriest is physically diminutive compared to the Starseer. His buff also doesn't require LoS last I read....
So bring in a Tree Lord and pop a Wyldewood up and hide him behind it.
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The ease of hiding comes from when their buffs are applied. Starpriest applies his buff within the herophase, pre movement. Itll be more difficult to hide him effectively and have him in range OR itll more drastically effect how you deploy. Niether option makes me feel good considering how critical deployment can be.

A starseer has the benefit of moving before his ability is applied and his spell is more beneficial, assuming you cant use either ability.
 
Putzfrau said:
The ease of hiding comes from when their buffs are applied. Starpriest applies his buff within the herophase, pre movement. Itll be more difficult to hide him effectively and have him in range OR itll more drastically effect how you deploy. Niether option makes me feel good considering how critical deployment can be.

A starseer has the benefit of moving before his ability is applied and his spell is more beneficial, assuming you cant use either ability.
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I would assume that that has more to do with proper planning of movement before you reach that phase.
I do see merit with the Starseer, but the buff from the Starpriest is well worth the risk. It just requires more forethought.
 
Carnikang said:
I would assume that that has more to do with proper planning of movement before you reach that phase.
I do see merit with the Starseer, but the buff from the Starpriest is well worth the risk. It just requires more forethought.
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I'd be surprised if you get the buff off more than once a game against obr. Those catapults are basically made to kill 5 wound characters with shitty saves. With them being such a popular choice, it just seems like a risk if you dont need the output.
 
Putzfrau said:
I'd be surprised if you get the buff off more than once a game against obr. Those catapults are basically made to kill 5 wound characters with shitty saves. With them being such a popular choice, it just seems like a risk if you dont need the output.
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Fair enough, but it will be invaluable against other armies that you will invariable be paired up against during other rounds. You should plan for OBR catapults another way.

Chameleon Skinks for example. That does change the general build though.
 
Carnikang said:
Fair enough, but it will be invaluable against other armies that you will invariable be paired up against during other rounds. You should plan for OBR catapults another way.

Chameleon Skinks for example. That does change the general build though.
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Totally, we'll see how it goes! I have a few other lists in mind that arent so all in haha. I just love saurus and I ran 90 in fangs of sotek with the last book so I figured let's turn it up to 110 with this one haha.
 
Putzfrau said:
Totally, we'll see how it goes! I have a few other lists in mind that arent so all in haha. I just love saurus and I ran 90 in fangs of sotek with the last book so I figured let's turn it up to 110 with this one haha.
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I think it'll be a fun list, and probably do fairly well. I'm a fan of Sauras, I just don't think I'd run more than 60 in an army unless they get a new kit. Lol.
 
Carnikang said:
I think it'll be a fun list, and probably do fairly well. I'm a fan of Sauras, I just don't think I'd run more than 60 in an army unless they get a new kit. Lol.
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Yeah lol it's not my favorite kit. I just have so many from collecting so long and already have them painted so I just ignore how ugly they are haha
 
After reading the warscrolls on their own, I'm going to share my opinion on each unit on their own (no points or Battalions, but I will consider rules already revealed by GW). I will make another reflection later on, once I get the Battletome and can read it through and through.
  1. Carnos: Overall, slightly buffed. SCarnos lost their -1 defense Shield, but they now do 1 extra damage with their Warspears, which is already a fantastic weapon. Carnolds actually got slightly buffed: the Spear now makes 3 damages instead 1D3. Blood Frenzy and Pinned Down now are simpler to use and better (Pinned Down now is also useful against HEROEs without the MONSTER keyword). The nerf for both of them is the lost of Bloodroar for Terror: now they just reduce by 1 the Bravery of enemies within 3". This sucks now for hordes (I'm staring at you, rat scum-scum) and getting off your back things with high wounds and low Bravery, like Ogors, but I guess it is a minor nerf, given how crappy the Bravery of those units are anyway.
  2. Trog: Buffed. I am glad it is now a WIZARD with Comet's Call and it can regenerate whilst having a Damage Table. They really got buffed, but the price, as far as I know, increased quite a chunk too, so it will lose chances to shine. At least it is not the fiasco from The Old World.
  3. Stegas: Definitively buffed. Skystreak now deals full 3 damage, hits at +3, and only lost a measly 1" in range. The Sunfire Throwers are easier to use and now makes mortal wounds instead of regular ones. Steadfast Majesty went from 5" to 18" and Armoured Crest is a very welcome survival tool. Unstoppable Stampede is also a reliable way to deal MW now, and got an extra melee attack and better and more consistent stats for melee. All at the mere price of now only having -1 Rend on its horns permanentely. One of the major winners of the Battletome so far.
  4. EotG: Reworked, yet I'd call it somewhat nerfed, but might as well just be a different kind of support unit now. Cosmic Engine has been reworked: The previous 6-9 and 10-13 are now fused into one and were tweaked, so you get to choose from one of the two, so that's nice. It still can heal and also got 2 extra wounds. Here's the the thing: now you can only roll 2D when you use it, and you need a SLAAN nearby to use 3D and you can't no longer reroll a dice of your liking. Not only that, now we went from only summoning one unit of Warriors, Skinks, Terras or Knights to just 10 Warriors, and, yet again that's only possible with a Slann nearby: you need a roll of 13-17. It still has the great melee profile as a regular Steggie, as well as the new abilities, but overall, it definitively plays different now.
  5. Basties: This one is a hard shell to crack (pun intended). It depends on the eye of the beholder, but I'd say its lending towards a slight nerf. Impervious Defence is no more, so it will be rained down by mortal wounds, and even with the 2 extra wounds it got, and that shiny starting +1 Save, it will still be harmed by that Damage Table. Solar Engine is now way better with a reliable number of attacks, but Ark of Sotek, while being easier to use and having tons of attacks, have a bloody To Wound of 6.
  6. Terras: I'm as confused as the struck down Terradon Rider from the Total Warhammer II in-game trailer. I'm calling a trade off so far. Swooping Dive is gone, yet Terras aren't the melee flyers. Their Bravery now is 5 and their saves are bloody +6! They now, however, have an improved ranged profile of 20% extra reach, Bolas (jaja, dije "bolas", y eso es gracioso en español) and now move at a blazing 16". I also readed that their price on points is really cheap now, but I'll discuss that when I get the Battletome. Yet, I see that as an absolute win: Terras and Carnos are by far my favourite sculpts in the whole GW range. Filling the table with even more Terras is just beautiful.
    Now, I'm glad not-Tiktaq'to can be deployed as a Chief now. I just love his Mask.
  7. Rippers: Nerfed to the ground. Voracious Appetite now deals only deals a +1 extra damage instead of making extra attacks, lost their claws and beaks for jaws, that have the attacks of the claws but the To Hits of the beaks. Swooping Dive is also gone, and Toads are now just markers usable once per bettle. They are also SLOWER, and Star-bucklers are gone. How they massacred my boys...
    Is this LOSS?
  8. Kroxies: Slightly buffed. They now have a base Bravey of 7, yet their jaws now work better and got -1 on all of their weapons. I was just hoping for plastic Kroxies...
  9. Guard: Reworked. They lost, like everyone, the Stardrake Shields. They have 2 wounds now, but they are still not as "elite" as the rest of the "elite" units, and now work kinda similar to the Tau drones in 40K, just for Slann. They maybe hold objectives better with a Slann to protect nearby, but I don't think is that much better. Also, Wardrums now re-rolls charges, instead of a 10" movement.
  10. Lord Kroak: Slightly buffed. Better melee profile, DfIA is not as gimmicky as it used to be, and now is a +4FnP, even with a stablished number of wounds (7) is, Impeccable Foresight now grants 1CP, GftH is now available for him. Just good things, that don't make him exactly broken. Let's hope there is not an horrible jump in point cost. (Pun not intended).
  11. Slann: Nothing new here. Just your budget Slann. Surely with Artifacts and Lores they will get more powerful. Celestial Configuration is now an army-wide rule, and it lost Light of Heavens, which had not real use, wich NOW could have, given how skinks are horrendously cowards now.
  12. Starseer: Straight up buffed. In fact, the most buffed thing in the whole army as an individual AND the whole game. He is no longer a sitting skink on a palanquin! Now it can also generate 1CP like the other palanquins, it has a really good ranged weapon, a decent spell, but what make it really shine is his Astromancer’s Staff: select an unit, then it can charge from 18" away, and you rol 3D6 to measure. This lil' fella is now C-Os and Carnos best friend. Should it cast more than one spell, it would be our budget Slann.
  13. Warriors: Buffed. Wardrums reworked, Shields gone, but now they have +4 saves and their weapons also got slightly buffed. Ordered Cohort now works at a stable 15 models per unit. I love 'em, you love 'em, everyone loves 'em. I'd said they work better as Guards than the Guards themselves, except for the Guard protecting Slanns niche.
  14. Skinks: Nerfed. I mean, they are stupidly fast at 8", and now they have a +5 with Bucklers, AND Celestial Cohort now works at a stable 15 models per unit. But Wary Fighters is gone and now they have a Bravery of 5. They need much more support now to stay on the battlefield, and none of their weapons got even the slightliest of buffs.
  15. Razors: Buffed. All of its attack have been buffed with extra range and damage and rend in melee. Got an extra wound and the Handlers now work also like Tau drones in a way: they are a unit as a whole, just apply wounds to the Handlers, even when they have 5 Bravery, the lose is not as terrible.
    I'm still waiting for my plastic kit to build a Sally or a Razor.
  16. Knights: Buffed. They also traded the -1 Rend immunity for a +4 save, move 1" more, Wardrums make more sense now, but they also lost their mortal wounds after charging with spears, so those 2 damge it deals now instead can be blocked by saves, yet, I'd say is more consistent than a 6 to wound. Also, Celestite weapons now make two attacks each one. They are great.
  17. Sallies: Buffed, even broken in the right situation. Handlers and Bravery are the same as Razors. Melee is quite better now. Ranged is dangerous as hell, tho. Now it reaches 12", has D3 damage instead the previous D6 damage, BUT IT BELCHES 4 TIMES INSTEAD OF ONCE. That's a lotta damidge!
    I'm still waiting for my plastic kit to build a Sally or a Razor.
  18. Chamies: Meh. They really haven't change that much. The only noticeable thing is that theyr Star-venom now makes a MW instead of adding extra damage.
  19. Sunblood: Nerfed. Bye-bye Aeon Shield. That hurted me. Other than that, now he has a shiny +3 Save and is basically the same otherwise.
  20. Eternity Warden: Buffed. They now have a Command Ability and a better save and damage output. That's about it.
  21. Starpriest: Buffed. One extra wound, a good ranged weapon, and can make an extra CP. Otherwise, our always beloved Starpriest.
  22. Astrolith: Nerfed. +6 FnP does not make up for re-rolled failed hits. Might be worth it with a +5.
  23. Scar on CO: Somewhat nerfed. The real hit is that it lost 2" move. Trading Fury of the Seraphon of Cold Ferocity is barely noticeable.
  24. Priest: Buffed. Lost its Cloak (but I know it is an Artifact now), but both the new Staff and Command Abilities are really good.
  25. Oldblood: Depends on what you value the most. Outside of a +1 save, it now has Cold Ferocity and an offensive CA for Saurus, whilst previously it re-rolled wounds of 1 for Saurus and its CA allowed him to reform one Seraphon unit. You like it to be more offensive? It's nice, I guess. You liked it more defensive? Nerfed, definitively.
 
Maybe not the right thread for the lore, but there's some cool tidbits in there beyond what's already been discussed elsewhere with the coalesced vs starborn.

Stuff like confirmation that even abandoned temple cities from the old world took off as temple ships is cool! Tlax still being around, and the Slann coming together every year to pump energy into the ghosts, and then debating afterwards whether the ritual is giving power to the city's ghost defenders, sending it back in time and giving them the energy to last as long as they did against the invaders, or whether it's pooling energy and eventually may change the past through the sheer amount of power transferred into the city- all that stuff is some nice fluff
 
Can anyone confirm the dimensions of the new Realmshaper? Would like to start working on a custom one.
 
Played two games against KO today. He's a fairly new player, but so am I with the new battletome. :D

I played thunderlizard thunderquake, kroak, priest, starpries, 40-10-10 skinks, EotG, 2x Bastiladon, 3x Salamanders, he brought Ironclad, chemist, 3x boats, 6-3-3 endrinriggers and 15 thunderers. First game he tried a head-on all-out attack, killer 20 skinks and some handlers with the whole army's shooting and got severily punished, being left with only Ironclad, thunderers on board and a lone chemist on the other side of the board. Then I've got a double turn and he had conceded.

He was more cautious in the second game and left more stuff on points, while trying to remove me from objectives. But I've concentrated on the largest group (Ironclad+thunderers+6 riggers+hauler), while sending a bastiladon to remove small stuff from enemie's objectives. By turn 3 I removed the main group and burned one of his objectives (it was scorched earth) focing another concede.

I think, defensive strategy would benifit him better and he should go for my heroes. But I myself didn't expect such durability and output from skinks and bastiladons.

Conclusions:

1) Coalesced still feels worse in competitive sense because of lack of mobility. If you cannot gring through enemy ranks by turn 3, you may lose just because of objectives;
2) -1 damage compensated by low leadership. And if you want to ignore leadership, you have to sacrifice CP or casts. This kind of forces one big infantry unit, which you can calm with Celestial Harmony, couple of small units to grab objectives and then monsters all the way;
3) Aetherquartz brooch is a must. I can't imagine more important artifact right now for skink-heavy armies and especially thunder lizard. You'll never have enough CP;
4) Master of Star Rituals on non-caster is a very good options, because it is virtually 5 free CP. I think, strategically it is our best warlord trait, if you are going skink-heavyж
5) Kroak is ultra-tanky. Don't expect to much from him, but no stary unit will take him out without in single phase;
6) Burning head is good, but it is so hard to get it into the needed position and not hurt anyone. I think, it is better to chose a 1-2 units for it to escort. If other units will be in the aura too - good;
7) Basties a good too, but I have a feeling, that they are not worth the investment. They dealt decent damage with doubleshooting, +1 to-hit and rerolling 1's. But still, they are pretty tanky. My opponent decided just ignore them, because had no hope to hurt them;
8) EotG may deal decent damage to proper targets with some buffs. Skink chief should be even better;
9) Skinks are evil.
 
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