The great BLOOD BOWL thread

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[ChapterAquila92]

As for hiring the Star Players directly from team funds, I think that is pretty much a necessity for a team like the Snotlings. Even after you max out all of your positionals and pickup the requisite number of team rerolls, you should still have a large number of funds left over. At that point you need something to spend it on, which comes down to some combination of inducements and/or star players.

That's entirely dependent on the set value the venue you're going to is dictating, really, with nothing to say of any additional rules the venue might put in place (needing to apply to take specific star players on a first come first serve basis, for instance).

On average, the draft budget for Matched Play is between 1,100,000 and 1,200,000, which might net you a star player but would otherwise cut into your ability to take team re-rolls or an apothecary if you tried to take more than that, especially since Snotlings are paying 70,000 per re-roll. Additionally, while a Tier 4 team is afforded 10 skill points to pay for free skill advances, star players eat into that budget as well as their draft cost, and some star players (referred to as mega-stars) are both more expensive to take and capped at one such star player per team.

That's true, but if you're advancing a Snotling lineman, I don't think those are the skills you're going to choose. It's a shame they don't have access to General on primary, but even within the confines of Devious and Agility there look to be far better skills available.

Eh... If I had the option to get skills and stat boosts for that low of an increase in team value without having to try to advance a player to get them, I'd personally take it, especially if it involves the ability to move and if it came at what would functionally be a 50% discount. Hell, even if you're going to discard the idea of using the Pogo trait outright, MA 6 puts Fun Hoppas ahead of Snotling Linemen as non-star players that can help you score touchdowns and win you games.

Is the Bombardier trait not worth the 15k investment over a bog standard Snotling Linemen? It's a pretty unique skill that can't be accessed through traditional advancement and it has the potential have an outsized impact on the pitch. One good throw could single-handedly make it worthwhile. Of course this is only based on opinions I've read/watched, not any actual game experience on my part, so I'm open to be corrected.

I'm not going to deny the utility of the Bombardier trait, but this is ironically an instance where the team value argument comes into play. 30k for the addition of Bombardier, Secret Weapon and primary access to Passing skills is a lot to ask for when you're not getting any stat increases. Comparatively speaking, a Goblin Bomma practically gets the same benefits over a Goblin Lineman for a 5k difference in team value. The only fundamental differences are that the Bomma loses the Right Stuff trait and exchanges Agility for Passing (rather than simply adding Passing) when it comes to primary skills.

Essentially, Snotlings are paying to be able to throw the players who can throw the bombs.

I can certainly understand that viewpoint, but I must admit that I am little partial to them. They add such a unique flavor to a team and really shake things up tactically. Choosing a specific Star Player can really alter the way a team is played. And even a wimpy Snotling team can look a little bit more intimidating when backed up by Morg on the pitch!

Fair, though from personal experience I've always found that the issue with playing certain teams is entirely a skill-based one, not a model-based one. There's a reason why the teams are organized into the tiers that they are, from easiest (Tier 1) to hardest (Tier 4) to potentially win games with, and even then I've seen even freshly drafted Tier 4 teams give legacy Tier 1s a run for their money without taking a single star player as inducements. Hell, I play competitively with a halfling team this way just as much to try my skill as I do for the amusement of throwing them around the pitch.

 

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On average, the draft budget for Matched Play is between 1,100,000 and 1,200,000, which might net you a star player but would otherwise cut into your ability to take team re-rolls or an apothecary if you tried to take more than that, especially since Snotlings are paying 70,000 per re-roll.

2 trolls, 2 pump wagons, 2 stilty runnas, 2 fungus flingas, 2 fun hoppas and 4 snotling linemen gives you a total of 14 players at 630k. Add 3 team rerolls and you're sitting at 840k.

That leaves you with 260k left in a 1.1 million roster and 360k remaining in a 1.2 million roster. Still plenty for some Star Player fun.

while a Tier 4 team is afforded 10 skill points to pay for free skill advances, star players eat into that budget as well as their draft cost

That's very true and an admittedly an important consideration. How many skill points is a coach willing to give up?

and some star players (referred to as mega-stars) are both more expensive to take and capped at one such star player per team.

I hope that Ripper stays off that list!

In matched play, does that make Ripper a better player than Morg, when we consider the hiring cost difference AND the cost of Morg being a Mega Star?

Hell, even if you're going to discard the idea of using the Pogo trait outright, MA 6 puts Fun Hoppas ahead of Snotling Linemen as non-star players that can help you score touchdowns and win you games.

It's true that the extra pip of movement is really nice. Especially for a relatively slow team.

Comparatively speaking, a Goblin Bomma practically gets the same benefits over a Goblin Lineman for a 5k difference in team value. The only fundamental differences are that the Bomma loses the Right Stuff trait and exchanges Agility for Passing (rather than simply adding Passing) when it comes to primary skills.

Essentially, Snotlings are paying to be able to throw the players who can throw the bombs.

A good point. Not much the Snotling player can do about that. On the plus side we can field two bombers for 60k as compared to the goblins fielding (a stronger and better armored) one at 45. Not sure which option is better in that regard.

 

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[ChapterAquila92]

On average, the draft budget for Matched Play is between 1,100,000 and 1,200,000, which might net you a star player but would otherwise cut into your ability to take team re-rolls or an apothecary if you tried to take more than that, especially since Snotlings are paying 70,000 per re-roll.

2 trolls, 2 pump wagons, 2 stilty runnas, 2 fungus flingas, 2 fun hoppas and 4 snotling linemen gives you a total of 14 players at 630k. Add 3 team rerolls and you're sitting at 840k.

That leaves you with 260k left in a 1.1 million roster and 360k remaining in a 1.2 million roster. Still plenty for some Star Player fun.

Additionally, while a Tier 4 team is afforded 10 skill points to pay for free skill advances, star players eat into that budget as well as their draft cost,

That's very true and an admittedly an important consideration. How many skill points is a coach willing to give up?

and some star players (referred to as mega-stars) are both more expensive to take and capped at one such star player per team.

I hope that Ripper stays off that list!

In matched play, does that make Ripper a better player than Morg, when we consider the hiring cost difference AND the cost of Morg being a Mega Star?

To hammer the point home, taking two star players in matched play, with one of them being a mega-star, costs you 6 skill points in addition to their hiring fee (mega-stars cost 4 points while regular star players cost 2). For a Tier 4 team, that just leaves you with 4 points left to use for skill advancements (1 point per primary, and 2 points per secondary) with two further things to keep in mind:

• Players can't be given more than one skill advancement this way, and

• Star players are obviously ineligible to receive skill advancements.

As for what else I'd add for matched play:

• I'd honestly be hard-pressed to lack the 50k worth of an apothecary. He may only be useful on a once-per-game basis, but if someone's trying to gun down your big guys (as you're wanting to do with Ripper yourself), the biggest thing you can do to spite that kind of play is to force your opponent to re-roll the lasting injury table and potentially get your guy back in your reserves if the re-roll is a 1. Since chainsaw players typically have the Secret Weapon trait, that generally means that the chainsaw won't show up past that drive anyway short of their coach successfully arguing the call.

• Three team re-rolls is very low for a team that typically needs them to make up for "unreliable" players. Considering that the odds of failure rapidly increase the more dice rolls you need to make in a row, just the success of throwing team-mates with one of your trolls to potentially score a 1-turn-touchdown has about a 19.3% chance of succeeding on a good day, and that's just over the course of four dice rolls (three by the troll, one by the thrown snotling). The odds of success increase to 29.6% just by re-rolling the Throw Team-Mate roll without the Strong Arm skill (which increases it further to 36.0%).

 

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To hammer the point home, taking two star players in matched play, with one of them being a mega-star, costs you 6 skill points in addition to their hiring fee (mega-stars cost 4 points while regular star players cost 2). For a Tier 4 team, that just leaves you with 4 points left to use for skill advancements (1 point per primary, and 2 points per secondary) with two further things to keep in mind:

• Players can't be given more than one skill advancement this way, and

• Star players are obviously ineligible to receive skill advancements.

With Snotlings, I think advancing all four big guys is an absolute must. So yeah, 2 Star Players with one of them being a Mega Star might be a bit of a tight squeeze. Maybe a single Mega Star or 1-2 lower or mid level stars might be more feasible. It would come down to which skills you want and if they are primary or secondary.

I'd honestly be hard-pressed to lack the 50k worth of an apothecary. He may only be useful on a once-per-game basis, but if someone's trying to gun down your big guys (as you're wanting to do with Ripper yourself), the biggest thing you can do to spite that kind of play is to force your opponent to re-roll the lasting injury table and potentially get your guy back in your reserves if the re-roll is a 1. Since chainsaw players typically have the Secret Weapon trait, that generally means that the chainsaw won't show up past that drive anyway short of their coach successfully arguing the call.

I would have thought that the value of an apothecary would be diminished in match play as opposed to league play, but that is a good point.

Three team re-rolls is very low for a team that typically needs them to make up for "unreliable" players. Considering that the odds of failure rapidly increase the more dice rolls you need to make in a row, just the success of throwing team-mates with one of your trolls to potentially score a 1-turn-touchdown has about a 19.3% chance of succeeding on a good day, and that's just over the course of four dice rolls (three by the troll, one by the thrown snotling). The odds of success increase to 29.6% just by re-rolling the Throw Team-Mate roll without the Strong Arm skill (which increases it further to 36.0%).

How many rerolls do you usually roster? What is the ideal number?

As for throwing a teammate, I think Ripper would be a huge asset in terms of reliability:

• no always hungry rule
• no really stupid rule
• better passing skill (4+ vs 5+)
• his innate Thinking Man's Troll reroll
• Bullseye skill

On the downside, he has loner, but his own reroll helps negate this.

 

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[ChapterAquila92]

How many rerolls do you usually roster? What is the ideal number?

As someone who doesn't go for Star Players with my halflings, my usual go-to for them during a draft is as full of a roster as possible with all positionals and big guys, at least 4 re-rolls, and an apothecary. If there's any money left over after all that, as much of that would get spent on cheerleaders and assistant coaches.

For any of my other teams, I prioritize my positionals first if I can, followed by scrimmage fodder/linemen (preferably a minimum of 3, but however many you need to at least meet the minimum team size), and maybe the big guy if they've got advances from last season. Some higher-tier teams can get away with very few team re-rolls, but I generally aim for at least 3 if I can, which in addition to potentially sacrificing my initial reserve pool can also cut into my apothecary budget.

Main reason why I prioritize re-rolls over the apothecary under those circumstances is that re-rolls double in cost after re-draft if you want to get more during the season.

As for throwing a teammate, I think Ripper would be a huge asset in terms of reliability:

• no always hungry rule
• no really stupid rule
• better passing skill (4+ vs 5+)
• his innate Thinking Man's Troll reroll
• Bullseye skill

On the downside, he has loner, but his own reroll helps negate this.

Probably wouldn't be a bad idea, especially since the fact that he can just go straight into the Throw Team-mate action without any preceding rolls is a massive bonus. Having just read his special rule however, you'll have to be mindful that it's only a once per half free re-roll for himself specifically, and for 250k you're certainly paying a premium on him.

 

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Main reason why I prioritize re-rolls over the apothecary under those circumstances is that re-rolls double in cost after re-draft if you want to get more during the season.

What is your thought on the Mascot as a pseudo 1/2 reroll at a discounted price? 25k instead of 70k in the case of the Snotlings. (matched play)

Probably wouldn't be a bad idea, especially since the fact that he can just go straight into the Throw Team-mate action without any preceding rolls is a massive bonus. Having just read his special rule however, you'll have to be mindful that it's only a once per half free re-roll for himself specifically, and for 250k you're certainly paying a premium on him.

He's definitely costly. But S6 with no nega-trait is pretty cool; equaling a Treeman but with much better mobility. Also a great thrower and pretty hard to remove.



What do you think of something like this at 1.2 million?




Alternatively a reroll can be subbed out for a mascot and then drop a single Fungus Flinga for either Fungus the Loon or Bomber Dribblesnot.

 

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[ChapterAquila92]

What is your thought on the Mascot as a pseudo 1/2 reroll at a discounted price? 25k instead of 70k in the case of the Snotlings. (matched play)

Apart from star players (who are instead drafted as any other player would normally be), you can't take inducements in Matched Play, so the mascot would be worthless there.

As for League Play, there might be an argument or two for taking one as an inducement, but strictly taking one just for the team re-roll is a bit risky due to relying on a 50-50 chance of actually being able to use the re-roll that half. Similarly with the Cheering Fans benefits, which you'd honestly want to be pairing one with temp agency cheerleaders to make the most of.

Ultimately though, I don't have a strong opinion regarding them. They strike me as the kind of inexpensive inducement in the low 5 digit range you take when you can't think of anything else to add, much like part-time assistant coaches and the aforementioned temp agency cheerleaders.

What do you think of something like this at 1.2 million?

Alternatively a reroll can be subbed out for a mascot and then drop a single Fungus Flinga for either Fungus the Loon or Bomber Dribblesnot.

If you're trying to go for Matched Play, don't forget that you also have skill points to assign primary and secondary skills with among your non-star players.

 

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Apart from star players (who are instead drafted as any other player would normally be), you can't take inducements in Matched Play, so the mascot would be worthless there.

But on page 110 of the rule book it states:

"Instead of players working out the difference in their Current Team Value (CTV) and then awarding Petty Cash as they would do in League Play, in Matched Play Coaches are simply allowed to buy Inducements for their Team Draft List.

Coaches may spend as much or as little on Inducements as they wish, so long as they have a minimum of 11 players (including Star Players) on their Team Draft List."

If you're trying to go for Matched Play, don't forget that you also have skill points to assign primary and secondary skills with among your non-star players.

Will do! Here I was just working out what I could squeeze into a list based on a set Team Draft Budget.

 

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[ChapterAquila92]

But on page 110 of the rule book it states:

"Instead of players working out the difference in their Current Team Value (CTV) and then awarding Petty Cash as they would do in League Play, in Matched Play Coaches are simply allowed to buy Inducements for their Team Draft List.

Coaches may spend as much or as little on Inducements as they wish, so long as they have a minimum of 11 players (including Star Players) on their Team Draft List."

Eh... I suppose. Nonetheless, as a dedicated league player, I don't do matched play when it comes to Blood Bowl, so it's an area of the rules that I don't frequent enough to bother delving into.

 

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Eh... I suppose. Nonetheless, as a dedicated league player, I don't do matched play when it comes to Blood Bowl, so it's an area of the rules that I don't frequent enough to bother delving into.

That makes sense. As someone new to the game, I think one-off matched play games are a great way of dipping my toes in the water. But first I must get my troops painted!

 

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@ChapterAquila92

I've read/watched a lot of hate online in regards to the Blood Bowl passing template.




Is there a reason why? What is wrong with this template?

 

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