8th Ed. The Empire gunline

[Leokill27]

Im facing a very strong empire player in a 2000 point game soon and I have a few concerns that I need addressed for this


I really want to win.

So, he has some pistoleers, no problem. Ive dealt with them before easily with 1 unit of 12 skinks shooting them down, but, he has outriders, these guys scare me. WS 5 strength 4 armour piercing , 3 shots each in a unit of 10 with a HUGE range.

Im thinking of countering this with 2 units of 8 chamo skinks, placing 1 pretty close to wherever he places the outriders *12 inches as the scout rule says ofc* and the other, waiting just outside of shooting range, AFTER his vanguard move.

The plan is to move the two units close enough to get plenty of shots off, thinning him out, or making him run, as they are move or shoot this works well in saving my scaly skin for a turn. Any thoughts on this tactic?

Also, his arch-lector or whatever. He hurts, any tips on how they tend to be used would be great. Im not sure if this is the guy who carries the rod of power, up to three power or dispel dice per turn really hurts either way it goes.

Another character I wonder about is his battle mage i think, the one that uses bound spells. Could a miscast with cupped hands be transferred onto this?

Any more tips on the empire would be a great help. Still working on a list for him, i know this isnt tourny rules and i should have a list already, but house rules dont mind.

Thanks in advance!

 

[novatomato]

Terradons would really help here as they can drop rocks on that pesky arch lector (is he on the wagon?) and also get into combat with units FAST and on flanks so they can't get a stand and shoot either.
Put Ethereal on your slann so you don;t have to take a lot of temple guard, which frees up points for the special slot, or you could give the slann the 2+ Ward vs ranged item.
If you mean the warrior priests when you say battle mage then no the miscast can not be transfered to them as they are not wizards.

 

[Leokill27]

Thanks for that, I've finished a first draft list and I'm at 2002 points, house rules allow 5 over or under so I'm ok. Knowing now that those warrior priests cant suck my miscasts, as im life I'll drop the cupped hands, I should be ok with throne of vines.

The arch lector is not on the wagon, I think he is mounted and in a unit.

My list as it stands, taking into account your advice nova,

Slann Mage Priest (490)
BSB - Discipline
Becalming Cognition
Focus of mystery
Focused rumination
Bane head
Blood statuette of spite
Plaque of divine protection.

Scar vet (138)
Shield
Light armour
Piranha Blade
Firefly venom

Temple Guard x10 (195)
Full Command

Saurus Warriors x20 (250)
Full Command

Saurus Warriors x16 (206)
Full Command

Skink Skirmisher x13 (91)

Salamander (75)

Chamo Skinks x8 (96)

Chamo Skinks x8 (96)

Terradon Riders x3 (90)

Ancient Stegadon (275)



Any suggestions that you want to make feel free. But I feel good so far with this list.

 

[vapor]

Firefly and the Piranha Blade don't stack, VFF only works on non-magical weapons.

10 Temple guard aren't enough, you'll want 16-20 to make them worthwhile (see if your opponent will let you proxy some Saurus from the 16 man unit as TG, fold the leftover into the other unit, bigger units are better in 8th). If you have another sallie squeeze it in too, they absolutely melt empire troops.

Outriders are WS3 BS4 fast cav with a 5+ save; I wouldn't worry about them too much. They have a big range, sure, but they also suffer from multishot and long range so you should be able to deal with them while they are still shooting on 5's. Use the Ancient Steg (who can afford to eat the shots) or the Chameleon Skinks (set up 13 inches away on deployment, that way he's shooting on 7's at best and on your turn you can move in to shoot) on them and they'll disintegrate quickly. He's got a ton of points invested into that unit, it'll be worthwhile to kill it quickly.

 

[Leokill27]

Yeah, the 10 temple guard setup is what im lumped with till payday at the moment, though it will be fixed.

As for splitting my smaller saurus block into TG and regular saurus, I know 10 isnt really enough, but I always feel better having the two blocks. Being able to take my low amount of temple guard to a flank works for now. The only real worry I have is rear or flank charges, with 10 my slann is exposed at the rear, but im always very careful with my battle line to ensure im covered.

I'll lump the low amaount of TG as it is, but I see more use of my models as saurus for this one, especially because the empire have 2 30+ units on the field with the minor squads following the parent unit. I'd Like to be able to tie them off till the magic phase.

Again, I would have to sallys but again, lack of models till payday.

Im sure I was told the outriders have BS5 (its what i meant before) He said he's usually hitting on 2's and 3's..


Just checked games workshop, you're right vapor BS4 makes me feel a little better

Quick question, The ancient stegadon with the blowpipes, can that make a stand and shoot reaction? And can the skinks operate the blowpipes whilst in combat? *still learning the rules *

 

[Arli]

Vapor is dead on. I agree with everything that he recommended.

 

[vapor]

Yeah, the 10 temple guard setup is what im lumped with till payday at the moment, though it will be fixed.

As for splitting my smaller saurus block into TG and regular saurus, I know 10 isnt really enough, but I always feel better having the two blocks. Being able to take my low amount of temple guard to a flank works for now. The only real worry I have is rear or flank charges, with 10 my slann is exposed at the rear, but im always very careful with my battle line to ensure im covered.

I'll lump the low amaount of TG as it is, but I see more use of my models as saurus for this one, especially because the empire have 2 30+ units on the field with the minor squads following the parent unit. I'd Like to be able to tie them off till the magic phase.

Again, I would have to sallys but again, lack of models till payday.

Im sure I was told the outriders have BS5 (its what i meant before) He said he's usually hitting on 2's and 3's..


Just checked games workshop, you're right vapor BS4 makes me feel a little better

Quick question, The ancient stegadon with the blowpipes, can that make a stand and shoot reaction? And can the skinks operate the blowpipes whilst in combat? *still learning the rules *

I understand the payday thing completely; it took me what feels forever to get my army up to 2500 and I'm shooting for 3k by the summer to be ready for 'Ard Boyz. To me it's better to have two big blocks of hard to kill troops than 3 small blocks that are easy to reduce to combat ineffective-- ranks are everything. Big blocks keep steadfast longer and make it easier to break his steadfast.

He should never be hitting on better than a 4 with his outriders (bs 4 = 3's, +1 for multishot). That's before range, cover, skirmish, etc. Don't forget that if he moves them they can't shoot at all.

Yes, the Ancient Steg can stand and shoot-- against Empire it might actually work out better to do that against most of his troops rather than charge in with the high strength impact hits (two rounds of 4d6+3 poison shots can really wreck blocks of T3 low AS guys while the high strength attacks are pretty much wasted).

 

[Leokill27]

I've seen a lot of lists on the forum with 2 blocks of 25 saurus and been pining to try the same, its good to hear I getting on the right lines.

Thats great the Steg can stand and shoot, you're right. Its not worth charging in for the impact hits when the tradeoff is that good.

With the outriders not being as dangerous as I thought, I might be able to pull a win out of this.

Thanks for the advice. The game is tonight so I'll post the result up here to let you see how I got on.

 

[Leokill27]

Well, I got humped, I failed to cast on 2 magic phases, Slann was utter useless.

Camo skinks killed all 10 Outriders in 2 shooting phases. They were totally awsome. Definitely using them again.

The terradons were knocked out by dwellers below in his first magic phase.

Saurus Blocks were taken down by Greatswords unit with brionia's timewarp, and flangellents with the same.

My salamander was also great, killing a unit of 12 halberdeers and 8 swordmen. Also scoring a kill on the Warrior mage.

My stegadon wins MVP, Finishing off the unit of greatswords, with the hero version of the arch lector. Some cavalry unit with a 1+ save AND the rest of the swordmen. Insanely good.


Where I went wrong, Well, I was rolling terribly so much so that my opponent cringing as much as me. The terradons were really not needed at all.

Also I think i overgeared my slann, Honestly, I didnt need that much on him.

The scar veteran I brought was useless, swapping that back to a skink priest asap, He's way better.

All in all though, I dominated the first two turns, and shooting throughout. Im going to refine that list and make it work. Lots of potential.

Thanks a lot to nova and Vapor for the help. Appreciated