8th Ed. Tetto'Eko

[listless]

Hey all, just wondering if anybody is having much luck with Tetto? On paper I was really impressed but I'm finding it doesn't translate well onto the table top. His vanguard ability is good especially if you are running any kind of bus you want to get to the enemy asap but as a caster I'm finding his abilities don't stack well.

As a level 2 you need to throw more dice to get things off and more often than not you are re-rolling 1s. I'm finding this forces him into miscasts quite frequently. His 5++ and 2W doesn't help a lot, combine this with a lot of death magic on the scene ATM against his poor stat line he VERY rarely makes it to the end of a game.

I was trying to run him as my only caster but he just can't survive, is he forever consigned to a role as support caster/one trick "vanguard" pony?

I ask because I was composing a list for Swedish comp and he's worth a massive 40 points!!

Opinions or even better advice is appreciated.

 

[Anton_S]

Only ran him as a support mage and in that role he is fantastic. Good selection of low/medium casting value spells to complement the Slann too. But it's probably hard to fit him in Swedish Comp alongside a Slann.

 

[n810]

He is probaly our most popular special character, it that tells you anything.

 

[Eladimir]

I found he was okay, but level 2 vs everyone elses lvl 4 put me at a major disadvantage.

I dont like the solution of adding a slann because now your at nearly 600 points (25%) in magic and the winds could be weak,

The one thing i liked was being was able to draw out the scroll most games with an early comet.

 

[Pinktaco]

The good thing about him is loremaster. You have a lot of spells and comet is always great, especially considering it's only casting value 12. At S5 first turn most will try and stay clear of it and should it hit it can potentially put quite a few wounds on some units.

I personally think it's a bit overpowered for the casting value.

The downside of Tetto IMO is that while he's quite good being offensive magic wise he's still just a level 2 and rerolling 1s doesn't apply to dispel attempts.

For the price I think he's great. You get a lot of good stuff and with the ward save and level 2 you're essentially only paying 55pts to: reroll comets, have loremaster, reroll 1s (although this can also be a curse!) AND stay in the second rank of a unit of skinks.

He's very well priced the way I see it. Loremaster alone costs our slann 35pts.

 

[Mr Phat]

I dont really get why people fear miscasts with Tetto.

Whatever spell you cast with him is worth sacrificing a couple of skinks for irresistible force, or else you are rolling dice without enough purpose to legitimize it anyway.
Even if you roll bad on the table:

He is not your general
He is not your BSB
He is not your main mage (...right?)
He is not expensive for what he does.

He is a REALLY good bargain, and he would be auto-include for me if we played SC's by default in my area -.-'

 

[Sleboda]

On paper I was really impressed but I'm finding it doesn't translate well onto the table top.

=> That's _exactly_ what I found to be the case.

His vanguard ability is good especially if you are running any kind of bus you want to get to the enemy asap

=> The Vanguard rule was one of the two reason I was using him. As it turns out, it's far too easy for the opponent to scout/vanguard his own stuff to totally negate the benefit.

As a level 2 you need to throw more dice to get things off and more often than not you are re-rolling 1s. I'm finding this forces him into miscasts quite frequently.

=> I agree. It's a perfect example of paper/real. On paper - "Ooh, I get to re-roll my 1's." On the table - "Oh crap, I just miscast...again."


Cool model (one of the very, very few that made me buy despite it being in Finecast), but pretty lame on the table.

 

[Anton_S]

He's there to make the Slann reroll 1s. Sometimes vanguard is ace, sometimes it does nothing. Tetto's own spells are a nice complement and the occasional Comet will make units move but his job is to keep the Slann from breaking concentration on a bad dice roll. Is it worth it in a standard sized game? Not sure, I only tried him in a big game and I loved him.

I also love the model and he looks absolutely ace flanked by a pair of Kroxigor in the second rank of a Skink Cohort. Not that it's a good idea to put Kroxigor in a unit you don't want to see combat, but it looks good.

 

[glacius]

Can he join any lizardmen unit ?

 

[Anton_S]

Can he join any lizardmen unit ?

Yes, but he only gets to go in the second rank of a Skink Cohort. He's probably better off with Skirmishers most of the time though.

 

[Nakki]

i have been running him alongside 2 skink priests. I have tried different combinations of lv1 and lv 2 and i like 2 lv 2s for more beast spell options. I take scroll and cube to make up for not having a lv4 on defense. In most games he has 1 6 dice miscast in him and then i use him for heavens buffs/debuffs and throw the big spell from the other lv 2s. I find for about the price of 1 slann the 3 of them give me the magic phase I want. I fill the rest of Lords and Heroes with a variety of cowboys. With his re-rolling 1s I think you need to accept miscasts if not expect them. I like him as a way to take a magic phase without a Slann.

 

[listless]

i have been running him alongside 2 skink priests.

That's actually a really good idea, leaves you lord slot free for a couple of OBs. Hmmm thanks a lot.

 

[Putzfrau]

He is amazing.

If you are finding him lackluster the problem isn't him. He's got incredible special rules that you pay almost nothing for. So many comets.

As someone else mentioned he is an absolute bargain. You won't find better bang for your magic buck.

Not every play style/ character works for everyone but tetto is amazing. Great rules, great cost just a matter of getting it to work.

 

[Sleboda]

Hey Putzfrau,

If you are finding him lackluster the problem isn't him.

=> So what is it then?

I've seen games with him + other priests as suggested here and he still seems very much middle of the road (which is ok I suppose).

If he's really just a comet-bringer, people figure that out and stop the spell.

Then you are left with a harder-to-protect caster with rules that actually can backfire on him.

Ouch.

 

[listless]

Putzfrau

Its very possible I'm playing him wrong that's why I'm here!

I understand that you are getting a lot of rules for not many points, I said as much in my opening post. What I have found in my games is he dies to miscast/death snipes easily.

I'd appreciate any constructive suggestions you might have tho.

 

[Putzfrau]

He has to either be a support mage or you have to build a list around him.

A bus list (cold ones) or heavy saurus list benefit greatly from the vanguard move. After that he's merely an excellent level 2. The heavens deck is incredible and his casting power is actually decent with the re rolling of ones. I will say I think the increase risk of miscasting is given too much weight. The good is going to outweigh the bad in 99 percent of the cases. Heavens is a cheap deck.

He's not the hardiest mage but he still has a 5++ and it's easy to keep him fairly safe since you are vanguard in scarier stuff at your enemy.

Wasn't trying to sound overly critical but the people I've seen struggle to use him effectively is a fraction of the ones that do.

I guess it's more of a question of what isn't he doing that you want him too?

He's not going to win games by himself. If he is your only mage you need something scary that will benefit from vanguard to make up for the lack of magical power you'll have.

@sleb

You seem to have a serious hatred and bad luck associated with magic. You didn't find the Slann to be very good either so maybe magic just isn't for you I dunno. Different play styles maybe?

 

[hdctambien]

I only played Tetto once and some of the bigger whiners at the (local game shop) tournament attempted to get him banned (our tournament currently bans nothing...) They said something like "Tetto is basically a Win button" although they didn't elaborate on how they would win with just Tetto.

I used him to vanguard my Salamanders and throw comets. He and his unit of Skinks were killed in all 3 games I played...

If I were to use him again, I think I would run something like 28 - 38 Temple Guard with a Slann and a Scar Vet (or two) and maybe give them the +1 Move banner (and the Skavenpelt Banner) and vanguard that up 12". If he moves forward at all, you've got a turn 1 (if he goes first) or turn 2 charge!

I would also put Tetto in a giant cohort of Skinks (I'm currently running 51 Skinks w/ 3 Krox, so I'd just add him to that probably)

I'd probably run Light or Life with the Slann. The idea is to get the Temple Guard into combat early and wreak face with them.

I might use the comet to block a flank or force things that are far away from my Temple Guard to move closer to them. I would also probably put some MR on the Temple Guard in case the Comet lands on them.

Heck. I might even throw a Troglodon in that list. Nothing like a charge into the biggest, baddest unit on Turn 2 from a Frenzy Temple Guard unit that has PF on 5+ and possibly a Magic Buff (ASF, or I-10/WS-10, or +2/+4 Toughness).

I'd also want a unit or two of chameleon skinks to keep my oponent from Vanguard-blocking me with his own Scouts/Vanguards.

And I like to keep an Engine of the Gods around to give my TG a 6+ ward (although if running Life I might just hope for the 5+/4+ from the Sig Spell).

I imagine that would be a mean combination. And besides the Magic Buff, I don't think there's much randomness to this army (just plop your TG down across the board from your opponents biggest unit) ... I don't know how much of that you could fit into 2400/2500 points. But I think that's the idea.

 

[Sleboda]

@sleb

You seem to have a serious hatred and bad luck associated with magic. You didn't find the Slann to be very good either so maybe magic just isn't for you I dunno. Different play styles maybe?

=> Tru dat.

I think it comes from having Tomb Kings hangover. That army is 100% utterly completely massively uber dependent on magic. Also, for me, it relied on a big block of Tomb Guard an no monsters at all.

Now I am playing Lizardmen and don't want to have them play like TK at all. Thus, no L4 caster, no block of Temple Guard, and lots of monsters.

I also can't get past the thing I've mentioned before, that the main rulebook itself says that it's never a good idea to rely on magic as part of a plan to win the game.

In addition to all that, I hate the idea that any army has a "must include this or nothing works" unit. This is one reason I cling to not using the Slann or Salamanders. Look at books like Dark Elves, Skaven, Ogres, and others for armies that can be built and played many different ways without haveing a "must" unit.


So, to Tetto again - I initially took him almost entirely for the Vanguard rule. I wanted to get my Kroxigor unit and monsters into the enemy as fast as possible. Then my opponent stopped all that by just taking scouts and totally negating the benefit of Vanguard, so I was left with just the spells and his appeal went away.

 

[Nakki]

i have been running him alongside 2 skink priests.

That's actually a really good idea, leaves you lord slot free for a couple of OBs. Hmmm thanks a lot.

So I tried out this list. Priests Saurus some Krox Salamanders shooty stuff and few Cowboys. In the game I played against Skaven with 2 Hellpits -_- and quickly realized it was very hard to get a flaming attack. I typically avoid them on my cowboys in case heroes have the 2+ ward vs fire. So to me with only Heavens and Beasts lizards have trouble dealing with Regen. Otherwise magic worked great and it was a reallly good game, the Hellpits just took longer to deal with than i wanted.

 

[Putzfrau]

@sleb

You seem to have a serious hatred and bad luck associated with magic. You didn't find the Slann to be very good either so maybe magic just isn't for you I dunno. Different play styles maybe?

In addition to all that, I hate the idea that any army has a "must include this or nothing works" unit. This is one reason I cling to not using the Slann or Salamanders. Look at books like Dark Elves, Skaven, Ogres, and others for armies that can be built and played many different ways without haveing a "must" unit.

I'd argue that all of those armies "require" something to be competitive(I assume this is the structure you had in mind when making that claim. In a casual or friendly game no army has a unit that is leaned on so much it's a must take regardless of scenario or opponent).

A skaven army without slaves and engineers is going to have a rough go. Dark elves without warlocks or witches, ogres without cannon or mournfang.

Granted, the examples might not be nearly as bad as lizardmen with slann, but it's still there. A dark elf army that doesn't have either warlocks or witches is going to be significantly less competitive and have a much harder time doing well in any kind of focused competitive environment (a tournament).

I think the armies you listed are certainly more flexible in a more casual situation. They have a lot of options that can do well comparatively against other lists that aren't hard as nails and don't have the options (lizardmen).

I'll never argue the lizardmen book is full of exciting options, because I don't think it is. I think lizardmen have one list that works well in a competitive environment (lots of bs shooting and magic) and the more you deviate from that the less competitive you get.

Skaven ogres and dark elves aren't as limited. They can get a little more deviation to their lists and still be good, but there's still some units that will always be too good not to take.