AoS Struggling with Fundamentals

[ArtoriusaurusRex]

Hey fellow Lizards and Frogs!

So, I reckon I've been playing Age of Sigmar for about a year and a half. Not necessarily very frequently, but I'd guess I average out over time to about a bit more than a game a month? More frequently the past two months.

It's been Seraphon the whole time. Old tome, new tome. Haven't even considered a second AoS army until recently.

My problem is, even after this good little while of playing, I cannot win games. I can usually have fun, but I can't win, and constantly getting smashed is starting to become...disappointing. I think I've won a single AoS game since I began playing, and that was with some hot rolls.


For most of that time, I've tried to make a skink and dinosaur-heavy list work for me. Though, more recently I've been trying to lean into the Saurus wing of the army more, having grown frustrated with the fragility of dinosaurs. Frankly, though, it's not helped much. While most of my games with the new tome have been Coalesced, I have experimented with Starborne, without much more luck.


I know Coalesced is obviously less competitive than Starborne, but for now I'd like to stick with it. Because I have to assume my problem is in fundamentals and not based on subfaction. In general, it *feels* like all of my "threatening" units will move toward the objectives, kill part of whatever wants to contest them, and then rapidly die with much less effort on my opponent's part. And then maybe they summon something to seal the deal if their faction can.

Usually the game ends around Round 3 with <15 battle line infantry and Kroak left on the board, give or take, while my opponent probably still has 1200 points of stuff (1500 if they summoned )


I'm sorry that this must seem like a vague problem, but that's because I'm also at a loss to figure out what's wrong. I've played 40k for 3 years and I do pretty well in the same store with some of the same people. Not so with AoS.

Nevertheless, I'd be very grateful for insight and assistance. If there's any question I might answer to make it easier to get a read on my situation, please let me know


Thank you!

 

[Erta Wanderer]

Hey fellow Lizards and Frogs!

So, I reckon I've been playing Age of Sigmar for about a year and a half. Not necessarily very frequently, but I'd guess I average out over time to about a bit more than a game a month? More frequently the past two months.

It's been Seraphon the whole time. Old tome, new tome. Haven't even considered a second AoS army until recently.

My problem is, even after this good little while of playing, I cannot win games. I can usually have fun, but I can't win, and constantly getting smashed is starting to become...disappointing. I think I've won a single AoS game since I began playing, and that was with some hot rolls.


For most of that time, I've tried to make a skink and dinosaur-heavy list work for me. Though, more recently I've been trying to lean into the Saurus wing of the army more, having grown frustrated with the fragility of dinosaurs. Frankly, though, it's not helped much. While most of my games with the new tome have been Coalesced, I have experimented with Starborne, without much more luck.


I know Coalesced is obviously less competitive than Starborne, but for now I'd like to stick with it. Because I have to assume my problem is in fundamentals and not based on subfaction. In general, it *feels* like all of my "threatening" units will move toward the objectives, kill part of whatever wants to contest them, and then rapidly die with much less effort on my opponent's part. And then maybe they summon something to seal the deal if their faction can.

Usually the game ends around Round 3 with <15 battle line infantry and Kroak left on the board, give or take, while my opponent probably still has 1200 points of stuff (1500 if they summoned )


I'm sorry that this must seem like a vague problem, but that's because I'm also at a loss to figure out what's wrong. I've played 40k for 3 years and I do pretty well in the same store with some of the same people. Not so with AoS.

Nevertheless, I'd be very grateful for insight and assistance. If there's any question I might answer to make it easier to get a read on my situation, please let me know


Thank you!

glad to help a few questions first.
what does your list look like?
what armies are you fighting?

 

[ArtoriusaurusRex]

glad to help a few questions first.
what does your list look like?
what armies are you fighting?

For most of my time playing AoS, I played *some* variant of this:

-------------------------------------------------------------

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Thunder Lizard
Engine of the Gods (260)
- General
- Command Trait: Prime Warbeast
- Artefact: Sacred Stegadon Helm
Skink Priest (70)
- Artefact: Fusil of Conflaguration
Slann Starmaster (260)
- Spell: Stellar Tempest
Skink Starpriest (120)
- Spell: Celestial Harmony
40 x Skinks (240)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
Stegadon (240)
- Weapon: Skystreak Bow
3 x Salamander Hunting Pack (330)
Bastiladon (220)
- Weapon: Solar Engine
Thunderquake Temple-host (150)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 115

------------------------------------------------------------------

Most recently, I played this against the new Hedonites and was soundly beaten:

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Koatl's Claw
Lord Kroak (320)
- Spell: Celestial Equilibrium
Skink Starpriest (120)
- Spell: Celestial Harmony
Skink Starseer (140)
- Spell: Celestial Harmony
Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur (230)
- General
- Command Trait: Dominant Predator
- Artefact: Blade of Realities
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Cold One (110)
- Artefact: Eviscerating Blade
5 x Saurus Knights (100)
- Lances
5 x Saurus Knights (100)
- Lances
5 x Saurus Knights (100)
- Lances
30 x Saurus Warriors (270)
- Spears
10 x Skinks (60)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
Firelance Temple-host (160)
Bound Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (70)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 135

------------------------------------------------------------

In theory, I'd like to evolve that second list to have some extra warriors and a Sunclaw instead of a Firelance, just so I can make that Carnosaur happier and get a unit of 10 Knights. But that's just an idea, and an untested one even in TTS.



My friends have...a lot more armies than I do. I don't think I've ever played the same faction twice in a row.

I most frequently see:

Slaves to Darkness
Hedonites of Slaanesh (now more than ever, naturally)
Idoneth Deepkin
Fyreslayers
Flesheater Courts
Gloomspite Gitz

Ossiarch Bonereapers and Bonesplittaz also exist in the group but I've never faced them yet.


Some new people have come around with SCE and Fangs of Sotek Seraphon, as well. Haven't seen those armies yet either, but the mirror match is one that makes me nervous, especially against FoS.

 

[Erta Wanderer]

well you have already found the weakness of the first list. dinos are brittle as heck and tend to get overwhelmed very quickly. not that they can't work it's just much harder. shame they all look so cool.
as for the second one the bones are solid, you have a good engine and good hero coverage. the problem comes up when you split the army between warriors and knights, both can be good but bot are also expensive to do right, most people go one or the other.(i understand that it might be a lack of models)
beyond that seraphon are just a hard army to pilot. we can be very powerful but all of it comes from precise positioning and foresight. we can kick like a horse but are made of paper and we need to know where to send the pain to make sure it isn't waisted.
my take on things is we tend to be a counter punch army we loose units in order to draw people into a devastating counter punch and that can be a vary fine line to walk

 

[Jason839]

Usually the game ends around Round 3 with <15 battle line infantry and Kroak left on the board, give or take, while my opponent probably still has 1200 points of stuff (1500 if they summoned )

this is a red flag for me(meaning something can be improved on). we are one of the few armies in the game that can go all 5 turns. Based on what you said it sounds like you try to take the objectives from the opponents and get clapped on the countercharge. Is that what usually happens?

 

[ArtoriusaurusRex]

well you have already found the weakness of the first list. dinos are brittle as heck and tend to get overwhelmed very quickly. not that they can't work it's just much harder. shame they all look so cool.
as for the second one the bones are solid, you have a good engine and good hero coverage. the problem comes up when you split the army between warriors and knights, both can be good but bot are also expensive to do right, most people go one or the other.(i understand that it might be a lack of models)
beyond that seraphon are just a hard army to pilot. we can be very powerful but all of it comes from precise positioning and foresight. we can kick like a horse but are made of paper and we need to know where to send the pain to make sure it isn't waisted.
my take on things is we tend to be a counter punch army we loose units in order to draw people into a devastating counter punch and that can be a vary fine line to walk

Those are helpful thoughts, thank you. When I first got into Seraphon, I expected hulking reptilian muscle/hide/scale-bound warriors and dinosaurs to be like the Orruks of Order. Took me a long time to figure out that's just not true.

If I choose to continue to learn with Coalesced, how should a counter-punch army be played properly without giving up on objectives in the early game? Seems dangerous to play passively for too long.

this is a red flag for me(meaning something can be improved on). we are one of the few armies in the game that can go all 5 turns. Based on what you said it sounds like you try to take the objectives from the opponents and get clapped on the countercharge. Is that what usually happens?

That's probably a fair assessment of most of my games. More recently it's evolved to *me* trying to countercharge, and getting clapped on the counter-countercharge, if you will.

I don't like letting the objectives go uncontested. Feels like giving the game away, but it sounds like that might be the wrong way to think of it.

 

[Erta Wanderer]

Those are helpful thoughts, thank you. When I first got into Seraphon, I expected hulking reptilian muscle/hide/scale-bound warriors and dinosaurs to be like the Orruks of Order. Took me a long time to figure out that's just not true.

If I choose to continue to learn with Coalesced, how should a counter-punch army be played properly without giving up on objectives in the early game? Seems dangerous to play passively for too long.
.

oh a counterpunch army can't be passive, you have to lead with your jaw and let them cut you so you can cut back deeper. my favorite example of this is a 30 man skink blob and a block of kroxagor. i set up the krox behind the block so that when the skinks go down the krox smash what ever killed them.
now this can be very hard to get right, giving them something sweet enough to pull them in while cheap enough that you don't mind loosing it is harder then it sounds.
over all you want to take territory early and then screen well so that the only things they can hit are things you can stand to loose. then when they hit what they can you cripple them.

 

[Nart]

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Thunder Lizard
Engine of the Gods (260)
- General
- Command Trait: Prime Warbeast
- Artefact: Sacred Stegadon Helm
Skink Priest (70)
- Artefact: Fusil of Conflaguration
Slann Starmaster (260)
- Spell: Stellar Tempest
Skink Starpriest (120)
- Spell: Celestial Harmony
40 x Skinks (240)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
Stegadon (240)
- Weapon: Skystreak Bow
3 x Salamander Hunting Pack (330)
Bastiladon (220)
- Weapon: Solar Engine
Thunderquake Temple-host (150)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 115

The list seems to be pretty strong, I would only make minor adjustments:
1) Make priest the warlord and give him Master of Star Rituals trait. This will make one unit per turn free +1 to-hit;
2) Give EotG Cloak of Feathers artifact. I think, it is 100% better than SSH even on chief. it gives you not only defence, but mobility, which is very important.

Be very careful with what you are charging and when. Try to snipe enemy heroes with shooting beasts and skinks. Don't forget about triumph if your opponent has exactly 2000 pts - it is every important for seraphon. When you are charging with monster, try to hit the edge of enemy unit, so you will be hit back with a few models. Be very careful with salamanaders - they tend to run away in Coalesced and CH is usually go to skinks. Despite high damage in melee, it is not advised to charge something, that can hit you back hard. Use bastiladon to block dangerous units with high damage but no mortal wounds. Always keep a CP for double-shooting - it is better damage multiplier than +1 to-hit, for example.

I would go for kroak instead of slann - he doesn't need bodyguard - but I don't see how you can find a place for him without droping something. Since you are not going with dual bastiladons, it is probably ok to go with slann only.

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Koatl's Claw
Lord Kroak (320)
- Spell: Celestial Equilibrium
Skink Starpriest (120)
- Spell: Celestial Harmony
Skink Starseer (140)
- Spell: Celestial Harmony
Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur (230)
- General
- Command Trait: Dominant Predator
- Artefact: Blade of Realities
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Cold One (110)
- Artefact: Eviscerating Blade
5 x Saurus Knights (100)
- Lances
5 x Saurus Knights (100)
- Lances
5 x Saurus Knights (100)
- Lances
30 x Saurus Warriors (270)
- Spears
10 x Skinks (60)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
Firelance Temple-host (160)
Bound Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (70)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 135

As mentioned above, unfortunately, mixing knights and saurus is not a good idea. When I play saurus-heavy lists in TTS, I tend to go for either battalion to better control who goes first, for additional CP and artifact. IMO, coalesced saurus lists should bring two starpriests and one starseer. You may drop one starpriest, if you low on bodies, but at least one is a must. Our saurus units lack serious rend and MWs is the only way to penetrate armor of some units. I would drop skink units too and take scarvet on carno. In coalesced, they are way worse roadblock, because they can simply run away. You won't be hitting with all saurus at once anyway, so just take a couple more abalative wounds for them. For knights, try to use their superior mobility thanks to high charge bonuses to hit first. Always give dominant predator to scar-veteran - his ability is better force multiplier and you won't always have any benifits for +1 to-hit, because you get +1 on charges anyway. Instead of taking two celestial harmonies, exchange one for Hand of Glory. You won't be able to cast both in the same turn anyway and additional rerolls will save you a cp, which you can use later to auto-pass battleshock anyway. But rerolls form the spell will stay for two combat phases, instead of one.

In general, monster builds are stronger than saurus builds, because shooting is a king in the game right now. I even think, that Thunderquake is better in some match-ups than Starborne.

Keep trying and you will get to win most of your games. Our battle-tome is one of the strongest right now.

 

[ArtoriusaurusRex]

Interesting. Why is it no good to mix Saurus types? Too many heroes needed? Or is it just because of the number of drops?

 

[Nart]

Interesting. Why is it no good to mix Saurus types? Too many heroes needed? Or is it just because of the number of drops?

In close combat you usually want big units, because smaller units can be easily wiped out. So, if you are mixing saurus and knights, try at least to take two big units. But you also usually want a battalion and taking several big units of both saurus/knights is problematic. Finally, the style of play. Saurus hordes in sunclaw are great at holding ground, while firelance is about shutting down your opponent in the deployment zone. If you take mix, you stretch out and can do neither good.

I don't really have much experience with saurus-heavy armies, but that's my opinion after a couple of games with both builds.

 

[Erta Wanderer]

Interesting. Why is it no good to mix Saurus types? Too many heroes needed? Or is it just because of the number of drops?

cost to make it effective. warriors need several blocks and the sunclaw battalion to work and you don't have enough points left over to run much else

 

[Jason839]

I don't like letting the objectives go uncontested. Feels like giving the game away, but it sounds like that might be the wrong way to think of it.

Sometimes you have to give up points early to establish an end game where you win. Other times early aggression is the right call. Those decisions get easier when you start winning games and building experience and confidence. A lot of us have been playing since AoS began, and some since WHFB and we still mess it up

I agree with everyone else to focus on 1 thing in a list. Do that 1 thing really well first and then you can branch out to more stuff. I would recommend just focusing on knights. They are great units and can be really strong. Take a list with a couple units of 10 and then fill out your lists with skinks. Work on using your skinks like a protective shield around your knights. There are tons of decisions to make with a list focused just on 1 thing. If you get the hang of those I think it will help you do better overall.

Example scenario: if the opponent has a unit on the objective and I want to get him off for the points I can go a couple different ways in a Firelance. 1. If the coast is clear, buff knights and smash to score the point. 2. If the knights are going to charge and kill this unit, but the enemy has a possible countercharge, then maybe I dont charge with the knights. Maybe instead I use kroak to take out some of the unit on the objective and then run skinks up to the objective just outside 3 of the enemy. They number more than the opponent now, so I capture the objective without losing my knights. Then the enemy has to deal with the skinks, and I can smash my knights into the units on the next turn If it proves safer. 3. Maybe I plan on smashing with the knights but dont want the enemy to countercharge, so I run my skinks to screen the knights from countercharges and then smash with knights on the charge. Decisions like that are made easier if you focus on just 1 thing at first.

 

[ArtoriusaurusRex]

I'm grateful for all the advice. I will take it to heart! I don't have the models to try everything yet, but the concepts I can work on, for sure.

 

[Putzfrau]

biggest thing that helped me get better was understanding threat ranges (and always keeping them in mind) and being patient.

It's a 5 turn game, which automatically minimizes how much damage can be done to your army. This combined with always keeping in mind threat ranges should make engagements a lot more predictable and more in your favor.

 

[Kilvakar]

biggest thing that helped me get better was understanding threat ranges (and always keeping them in mind) and being patient.

This has always been my biggest problem. We're usually such a high-drop army that our opponents usually get to dictate who goes first. If they have the ability to get in range to damage you turn 1, then they'll usually go first. If they can't, they'll force you to go first so you're tempted to move up and then they can counter-charge you, and we hate getting charged a lot more than most armies.

What models and how many of each do you have? This would be helpful in giving some listbuilding advice, but as a fellow Coalesced fan I've started to have more and more success with Thunder Lizards and Koatl's Claw as I've gotten more experience.

General things I've learned: Kroak is amazing, always bring him if you can. The amount of Command Points he can generate alone is often worth it. In my most recent game vs. Nurgle he was able to deal 9 damage to a Great Unclean One in a single hero phase, allowing my Carnosaur and a group of Knights to finish him off. He doesn't always need the Saurus Guard to survive, but if you're going to run him without Guard always keep him behind something to avoid being charged.

It's true out dinosaurs are brittle, but they also do a lot of damage. I also used to lose my dinosaurs turn 1 or 2, until I learned to screen them better like others are saying. Having some Skinks or Saurus Warriors spread out in front of them (or close to them if your opponent is running flying monsters like Maw-Krushas or Terrorgheists) to soak up the enemy charge and allow your Stegadons and Carnosaurs to counter-charge allows them to do what they are meant to do, namely smashing their enemies Thunder Lizard is actually my favorite list, and it can do really well. If you're able to pick which Realm you're playing in, or if you house rule that you get the bonuses from the Realm you're from, always pick Ghur. It's Command Ability to let monsters fight at full bracket is just amazing for Thunder Lizard lists. Here's one list I have had a lot of fun with online recently:

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Thunder Lizard
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Stegadon with Skink Chief (250)
- General
- Command Trait: Prime Warbeast
- Artefact: Cloak of Feathers
- Weapon: Sunfire Throwers
Lord Kroak (320)
- Spell: Celestial Apotheosis
Skink Starseer (140)
- Artefact: Fusil of Conflaguration
- Spell: Hand of Glory
Skink Priest (70)

Battleline
20 x Skinks (120)
- Meteoric Javelins Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Meteoric Javelins Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
Stegadon (240)
- Weapon: Skystreak Bow

Units
6 x Kroxigor (280)

Behemoths
Bastiladon (220)
- Weapon: Solar Engine

Battalions
Thunderquake Temple-host (150)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Balewind Vortex (40)
Bound Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (70)
Bound The Burning Head (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 100

No Starpriest in this list because there's no hordes that need buffing. Instead, the idea with this list is to play as defensively as possible in turn 1. Move up to just within shooting range with your dinosaurs if you can, and keep your Skinks out in front to block for them. If your opponent tries to charge, the Skinks will absorb most of that and your dinosaurs are free to pick their targets from there. If they also elect to play cautiously, not only will you be better set up to survive a potential double-turn but if you don't get double-turned you'll have an extra round of dino-shooting and almost certainly will be in a good position to charge in turn 2. Kroxigors need that +1 to hit from being near a Skink unit, but dinosaurs count for this so using them as a vanguard for a Stegadon or Bastiladon is a good idea. Just be careful about charging everything in at once, because you can potentially lose dinos thanks to alternating activations. But if you're able to use the Ghur Command Ability, it will be a lifesaver if your dinos get damage before getting to fight.

IMO, coalesced saurus lists should bring two starpriests and one starseer. You may drop one starpriest, if you low on bodies, but at least one is a must. Our saurus units lack serious rend and MWs is the only way to penetrate armor of some units.

In my game vs. Nurgle that I was just mentioning, that's exactly what I brought and it was well worth it! Here's my list from that game:

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Koatl's Claw
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (210)
- General
- War Spear
- Command Trait: Dominant Predator
- Artefact: Eviscerating Blade
Lord Kroak (320)
- Spell: Stellar Tempest
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (140)
Skink Starseer (140)
- Spell: Celestial Harmony
Skink Starpriest (120)
- Spell: Hand of Glory
Skink Starpriest (120)
- Spell: Hand of Glory

Battleline
10 x Saurus Knights (200)
- Lances
10 x Saurus Knights (200)
- Lances
10 x Saurus Knights (200)
- Lances
10 x Saurus Guard (200)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Balewind Vortex (40)
Bound Quicksilver Swords (40)
Bound Purple Sun of Shyish (60)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 118

 

[Prince]

Recently I'm dealing with similar problems as OP.
We have a Lumineth player among us and the Sentinels with their 5-6+ mortal wounds + reroll finish of the generals or key heroes turn one.
Last week I've lost Kroak turn one, his 4+ fnp compared to 19 shots from a unit of those is a joke. 36" range, can't hide him anywhere. It's simply annoying that I need to build a list where I have to spend extra points for Kroaks protection, or pray that he survives at least one round of those arrows. Seeing on GW official site how they are adding new models for Lumineth (2+2+ hit/wound -2 rend on most stuff makes me feel negative towards the next game) and I love Aos and my lizards!

 

[Putzfrau]

Recently I'm dealing with similar problems as OP.
We have a Lumineth player among us and the Sentinels with their 5-6+ mortal wounds + reroll finish of the generals or key heroes turn one.
Last week I've lost Kroak turn one, his 4+ fnp compared to 19 shots from a unit of those is a joke. 36" range, can't hide him anywhere. It's simply annoying that I need to build a list where I have to spend extra points for Kroaks protection, or pray that he survives at least one round of those arrows. Seeing on GW official site how they are adding new models for Lumineth (2+2+ hit/wound -2 rend on most stuff makes me feel negative towards the next game) and I love Aos and my lizards!

Lumineth do well into seraphon, but losing kroak to 19 shots is INSANE luck on his end. Even getting 7 mortals from 19 attacks is above average, and for you to not save any of them is wild.

It's a dice game man, sometimes it happens. It should take 20 sentinels 3 full rounds of shooting only kroak to statistically kill him a. Without the 5+ mortals they are doing on average like 2 or 3 damage to kroak, and you have a great opportunity to unbind that.

Salamanders destroy LRL, and our shooting should take their heroes (that are arguably more important in this specific matchup) just as reliably as they kill ours. If he's taking top it also should give you the opportunity to double, which should just be GG at that point. 3 salamanders can basically pick up an entire lumineth army over the course of a double.

 

[Prince]

Lumineth do well into seraphon, but losing kroak to 19 shots is INSANE luck on his end. Even getting 7 mortals from 19 attacks is above average, and for you to not save any of them is wild.

It's a dice game man, sometimes it happens. It should take 20 sentinels 3 full rounds of shooting only kroak to statistically kill him a. Without the 5+ mortals they are doing on average like 2 or 3 damage to kroak, and you have a great opportunity to unbind that.

Salamanders destroy LRL, and our shooting should take their heroes (that are arguably more important in this specific matchup) just as reliably as they kill ours. If he's taking top it also should give you the opportunity to double, which should just be GG at that point. 3 salamanders can basically pick up an entire lumineth army over the course of a double.

I know that on basic it should be impossible to get him so easy. He got 9 MW from which I pulled out only two. He is not dumb, he knows that Kroak is a huge threat to him so he will try to take him out ASAP. Now I'm thinking of buying at least 5 Saurus guard just for his safety and not thinking where I need to hide him for survival. Still I think Lumineth units are way OP. And the range threat is hard to overcome.

Today they showed something similar to our Astrolith bearer but instead of 6+ he can negate spells on 4+ and 24" aura instead of 12... (suddenly a comets call is not so reliable anymore). This whole week is a joke for me with these new rules introduction for Lumineth. Man, like -2 rend on so many units, and in Seraphon? One Dread Saurian come on!

 

[Putzfrau]

I know that on basic it should be impossible to get him so easy. He got 9 MW from which I pulled out only two. He is not dumb, he knows that Kroak is a huge threat to him so he will try to take him out ASAP. Now I'm thinking of buying at least 5 Saurus guard just for his safety and not thinking where I need to hide him for survival. Still I think Lumineth units are way OP. And the range threat is hard to overcome.

Today they showed something similar to our Astrolith bearer but instead of 6+ he can negate spells on 4+ and 24" aura instead of 12... (suddenly a comets call is not so reliable anymore). This whole week is a joke for me with these new rules introduction for Lumineth. Man, like -2 rend on so many units, and in Seraphon? One Dread Saurian come on!

haha it'll be okay dude i promise. Seraphon are easily a stronger army than lumineth, and i'd argue lumineth are more irritating than they are OP.

It's a problem to solve and seraphon have all the solutions you'll ever need. Just a matter of figuring out how to apply them. At the end of the day killing kroak doesnt win games, scoring points does and lumineth still suffer from being insanely slow (outside of the single double move spell) and insanely expensive. They are always going to be body light and rely on gimmicks for their survivability that can be played around. Focus on the objective game and make sure you're power is being projected into the right space.

Are you playing starborne?

 

[Prince]

haha it'll be okay dude i promise. Seraphon are easily a stronger army than lumineth, and i'd argue lumineth are more irritating than they are OP.

It's a problem to solve and seraphon have all the solutions you'll ever need. Just a matter of figuring out how to apply them. At the end of the day killing kroak doesnt win games, scoring points does and lumineth still suffer from being insanely slow (outside of the single double move spell) and insanely expensive. They are always going to be body light and rely on gimmicks for their survivability that can be played around. Focus on the objective game and make sure you're power is being projected into the right space.

Are you playing starborne?

I understand, but we also play casual games so I wouldn't want to invest extra founds into tons of Skinks or salamanders. I'm trying to build my army around Saurus stuff but now I see they tend to be a bit slow.

Usually I play Koatl's Claw but my last game was a starborne great plan involving appear on command. But as you saw in my previous post it failed don't get me wrong I love being the underdog and fighting stronger, more challenging opponent's. But having a rather non shooting army I need to think twice what to take with me for the next game.