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8th Ed. Strategies and Tactics (The basics)

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logalog

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So I've played quite a few games and each time I play I tend to have a rather rough time it's most likely because I don't understand some of the basics and I'm not talking about rules although that does happen at times.

What I'm looking for is overall help with tactics and strategies.

How do you set up? I know some depends on terrain but it seems like you can either place your saurus in the center or you can try a denial of flank and put everything on one side.

What units do you pair yours up with?

What do you focus on protecting? Your flanks trying to hold the line?

Just the basics of warfare I need to understand better and any help would be greatly appreciated or and source. Thanks
 
I don't normally play big games. However, Saurus are a real "block of iron" against all but the enemy's most elite combat units (such as Blood Knights). Skinks are mobile and put out decent firepower, as do Salamanders (and I use these for protecting my flanks). Terradons good at wizard/warmachine hunting, and Kroxigor kill chariot and some cavalry units and should be used either in the middle in units of about 5 or more (if playing 1000+), or in small unit of three on the flanks (not sure which as it depends on the players and the situation).
It is VERY IMPORTANT that you protect your Saurus/Temple Guard/ flanks.

Other than that, good luck. :)
 
There are lots of other setup styles but the Lizardmen work quite well as a lineup on the center and advance forward as a well.
A nice symetrical setup would be

Salamander - Skrox - Saurus - TG - Skrox - Salamander
With Chamo skinks shutting down warmachines on the enemies side.

The Saurus and TG both have a 4+ armour save which means they are worst when fighting something of strenght 6 because it perfectly negates that save and higher toughness. A 1 round calvary charge isn't a big deal cause your steadfest.

Try to have you skrox take the elite units for one round (should maintain steadfast) and then get in the side with saurus's.

Skrox are also you key vs high toughness monsters. I try to keep my saurus fighitng (and destroying) standard infantry.

Salamanders should focus the heaviest armored (-3 save) or horde units (tons of juicy template hits).
 
What about your main blocks on infintry do you lump them all together or try and cover as much of the board as possible? I figure most standard setup puts your slann and TG in the center then do you put your saurus 3 inch's next to it or more like 7 or 8 inches I mean in large games you have 6 ft of board you have to cover.
 
One nice thing with the Skinks and Kroxigor units is there high speed. This lets you put them out there a few extra inches and still be able to cover a flank. Even better is the joy of a cheap fear causing flanker, the Skink and Kroxigor combo.
In 3,000 point games I will often have 3 or 4 of 10S,1K units. Send one running off in an odd direction and watch your opponent send hundreds of points to deal with this “threat” or ignore it and get charged from the rear at an inopportune time. On an 8’ board I will do that in two different directions.
 
I just usually know that I'm always out numbered now I know this is mostly because I fight a goblin army so it's understandable. But mostly it's just trying to get into the flank. I know that a lot also depends on dice roll as I've had some really bad games because of rolls just not working out the way they should. Just trying to become a better general.

Also with the skink and the redirecting charges do you hold and then wait for them to get decimated or do you flee the charge and go through your unit?
 
logalog, you ask a very good question, but it's a hard one to answer, and something that even veteran players still struggle with. Not just terrain, but enemy deployment (and even magic lores) come(s) into play in how you decide to deploy. As a general rule though, it's good to keep your units close together with a Slann general to use Inspiring Presence and Hold Your Ground special rules for leadership tests.

Goblin hordes can be rough to fight with nets and fanatics surprising you, or at least making life harder. Their biggest weakness tends to be their low leadership, so if you can make something panic (using Chameleons to wipe out a warmachine early, or Salamanders to cause enough wounds for tests), then good things can happen.

Maybe try distractions rather than focusing on just getting something in their flank. Chameleons are great niusances that often mess with the enemy's movement, or like Goat1of4 mentioned, use a highly mobile unit that can cause headaches (I personally prefer a Salamander to the small Skrox unit), and often your enemy will be forced to alter their own advance or suffer the consequences.

Just don't get discouraged. The best way to learn is to play, and over time, you will discover how best to deploy in different situations.
 
logalog said:
How do you set up?
Click to expand...

The key to this is to use the advice posted above on what units work best against other units and make sure you pay attention to where your opponent is placing them.

If you set up a standard battle line, you are losing the strategic initiative because a good opponent will be watching how you place and reacting like I described above.

You want combat on your terms, not the opponent's.
 
I guess if you want to get down to basics, deployment is basically knowing yourself, and knowing your enemy. The first step in this process is to get to know YOUR troops and what they can do. Start memorizing stats (you will anyway if you keep playing). Start getting a feel for each of your units' capabilities. As you face new opponents, make note of their "problem" units and try to figure out how your army can counter. It just takes practice and experience, but flipping through other army books and seeing what the enemy can do can help also.
 
I highly agree with Cane. I love experimentation with my armies, and set ups. Every player is different, and army, but there are "general tips" once you get to know the different fighters it's all good. There's always tips and tricks for tactica so you can get broad strokes to handle an army tho. Know the units, and know how they interact- eg: if you see 2 units of 12 DE exec's and a CoB what would you do, while if you see the same thing with say 30 Corsairs and CoB? Hydrae- even 2 of them- are actually over emphasized, especially with a 5 point flaming banner.

I suggest a tactica thread for each army and how they interact with themselves and maybe a thread on magic stuff like banners, weapons and talismans. My main army has an example of this as such http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t=67182&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
 
I want to give you my basics in the three general styles, Aggressive, Defensive and the ever hard to pin down Mixed.

How do you set up?

Aggressive- the standard bull horns \_/. in the middle I have a big block. Run several Skrox, Salamanders, CoC, Stegadons ext… out to the sides, further the better. Use there extra speed to press the opponents units together/ toward the middle where you are running the big block up. Heavens and Shadow are my favorite Lores for this. Chameleons and Terradons work well too.

Defensive. The W formation. To one side strong flanker Skrox, Salamander ext. Place a mid sized block to the side but slightly behind. Very tough unit in the middle as further forward then the block to there side, Slann with TG or sometimes a small group of Scar vets/old bloods. Another mid sized block again back and then another strong flanker. Unless your opponent has no missile weapons you will want to move forward in this formation. Do not be afraid to back up any of the units to let the two mid sized blocks take the hit. Life is perfect for this, beasts also works well.

Mixed- I like the flying V, more traditionally called the wedge. you start with a strong Block at the top of the V and put units to either side, slightly behind like ducks flying in a V formation. You then run this formation forward. what makes this a mix of Aggressive and Defensive is that at any point you can pull a unit back and it will be supported by the one behind it. You can also sweep the edges forward as needed. Mobility plays a big part in this so I like lore of light or shadow.

What units do you pair yours up with?

I try to pair up units depending on who I am fighting and what the units flaws are. I always try to provide my Sarus with some ranged cover. Depending on the points available it may just be a skink unit or it may be two or three salamanders.
Many people forget that having only three units with speed of four doesn’t make those units slow it makes our other units fast. This means that you can move your support units around faster and support more than one big block. I often cut from one side of the battlefield to another with a support unit, weather that is Skinks or Stegidon.

What do you focus on protecting? Your flanks trying to hold the line?

Your General and your BSB. Both those give up victory points beyond the normal. If you can, protect a unit that is almost decimated. If even one survives you deny your opponent those points. Protecting the flank of a skin unit is not worth the line. Holding the line may not be worth the flank of the Slann or General. Like what was said before, memories the stats and points. If you can afford to let a unit die to achieve extra points later, do it but be sure you can afford it.

What about your main blocks on infantry. Do you lump them all together or try and cover as much of the board as possible?

In deployment I put one big block out first. I then put out its supporting units. If my opponent is focusing on that unit I will put my supporting units for my other big block out in such a way that it looks like I only have the one big block. I can then hopefully place that unit where it will do me the most good without my opponent having much if anything left to counter it with. As you play against goblins a lot this may not always work.


Also with the skink and the redirecting charges do you hold and then wait for them to get decimated or do you flee the charge and go through your unit?

I always hold but my skink units are usually there only to tie up units for a few turns. Lots of ranks are sometimes easy to get and stubborn and cold blooded are a good combination.
 
Awesome thanks a lot for all the insight that was given it helped out a lot. I found the base army build that I am playing quiet well. Now for another question what is the importance of a Scar-vet in a block?

I'm running 2 18x Saurus w/hw&s, a 23xSaurus w/spears, and 20xTemple Guard w/slann, blocks in my army now I had a scar-vet in my spear block but am seriously considering taking him out, with a skrox and terradons, to get another ancient stegadon (giving me 2).

I found that all my block where able to hold quite well which pleased me I also ran 3 10/1 skrox units and they all did amazing getting into the flanks and staying there but it seems to me that I'm not able to get through my opponents blocks fast enough so maybe another question is how many turns does it take your armies to decide an outcome for a battle?
 
Viarca said:
Goblin hordes can be rough to fight with nets and fanatics surprising you, or at least making life harder. Their biggest weakness tends to be their low leadership, so if you can make something panic (using Chameleons to wipe out a warmachine early, or Salamanders to cause enough wounds for tests), then good things can happen.
Click to expand...
Salamanders have special rule that they only need to cause one wound to force panic test. This is why you always take the maximum number of sallie units allowed, even if you only have one sallie per unit so you can attack the maximum number of different units and force extra panic tests. If you need to concentrate on one unit you can still put all your attacks on them.
 
For my setup, i tend to keep everything as close as possible to the slann. I did use to put things like skinks, salamanders and stegadons further out, but found they were getting caught way to easy by enemies out there, and eneded up running away or killed.

One thing i believe serves me well, is to decide how you're going to set up your army before the game, and don't be influenced by what the enemy puts where. too often i've responded to an early deployment, and ended up with a big block/monster miles away from anything. admittedly, this is far less of a problem in 8th.

As someone else mentioned, magic lore should have a big impact on where you put your stuff onthe board. I tend to take light or life, so it makes sense to keep your units as close to the slann as possible.


to answer your more recent questions; scar-vets, or for that matter any fighty hero, i find not worth thier points, but that again comes down to magic lore and playstyle. As for the outcome of the battle, again, very depedent on which army i'm playing against, magic, deployment, terrain etc, but with the long charges of 8th, i tend to find the critical combats are at least underway by turn 3, sometimes earlier.
 
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