8th Ed. Stegadon vs. Ancient Stegadon

[Sleboda]

I recently made the decision to go with a regular Stegadon in cases where I am not inclined to pay for the Engine of the Gods.

After looking at it again, I'm not sure anymore.

The shooting attacks are non-factors, so really you are paying 15 points to get +1S and +1 save, at a cost of 1 Attack. Survivability and impact hits seem to be what the Steg is all about, so isn't it pretty much always the better choice to go with the Ancient, even without the Engine?

Thoughts? Is this discussed elsewhere?

 

[hdctambien]

I'm with you on that. I think the only reason to take a regular stegadon is because you've filled up your rare points (with Ancient Stegadons)

Maybe you could try to counter other War Machines with the regular Stegadon's bolt thrower (+ Hand of Glory?) .. but that's probably not the most optimal use of points...

 

[NexS1]

I don't own a steg with a giant bow. If I did, and didn't want to pay for the EotG, i'd use him or the bastiladon.
I will not use the giant blowpipes because they end up very similar to a razordon in that they get little to no wounds through. I figure that the giant bow would suit my current list much better as i generally don't move much in the first few turns, allowing the giant bow to do some damage (but "bolt thrower luck says that if you shoot one shot, it will fail)

 

[Ixt]

I've had much better experience with the Regadon as a monster hunter/chariot smasher than the Ancient.

I take a Bastiladon in baaaasically all of my lists. Depending on the board & the opponent, it hangs out with the Regadon (making it I3).

Most monsters are I2 or less. Very few are greater than I3.

The ones that are I4 or higher seem like they face an uphill battle against a Stegadon to begin with (going solely off of their stat lines, mind you).

That, or they're far superior to both Regadons & Ancients.

Without a Basti around, you can expect the I2 Regadon to, at the very least, fight its opponent simultaneously - that's always better than fighting last, with special consideration given to late game combat (when most monsters may only have 1 or 2 wounds left).

Chariots are typically so fragile that the Strength difference doesn't matter.

Neither shooting option impresses me, but I'd rather have the range of the bow (solely as a playstyle thing). That said, the Bow does become pretty threatening at 18".

Even more threatening if GW lets the Chief fire the bow via Errata (only requires 1 crew member) - I'd consider taking one on top, maybe with Warrior Bane & a Potion of Strength. *shrug*

Anyway, my Regadon has walked away from 'Mo v. Mo' combat unscathed more often than not, getting all of its attacks in prior to its target with this setup.

The extra initiative point + monster hunter role may even justify 'Unstoppable Stampede,' though I haven't fiddled with that strategy yet.

I mean, a 10 point upgrade nets D6+1 Impact Hits followed by 5 attacks.

It seems pretty nice (especially if you can get a Wyssan's in there) but its standard attacks don't benefit from Multiple Wounds, unfortunately.

Still - the Ancient can be expected to kill its targets with Impact Hits more frequently than the Regadon, but any ensuing monster combat will also see it taking a few wounds.

So yeah - at its price, the Ancient doesn't seem very cost-effective in that role due to its lower Initiative. Especially true for EotG.

But it does hit harder, sooo...

YMMV

 

[Pinktaco]

Ugh.. If the regadon would've been 175pts I would've been much more of an auto-include. If we look past the cannon issue I still think 4 WS3/S5 attacks aren't all that.

Even if you bring 2 salamanders you can still take an ancient steg so for me personally I'd rather take that. Yes the 3 attacks is kinda rough, but on the charge it'll cut through most where the baby Steg will have issues against some things.

I do suppose, however, it depends on what you use them against.
If a chief could mount the giant bow thingy Id love to use him with BS5. Although I still don't consider it to be overpowered considering move + long range penalty.

 

[Saurian]

INVOCATION OF NEHEK!

Why would you fill your rare with ancient steggle when you could be taking salamanders?

And why would you waste your thunderstomp hunting other monsters?

 

[Ixt]

INVOCATION OF NEHEK!

Why would you fill your rare with ancient steggle when you could be taking salamanders?

And why would you waste your thunderstomp hunting other monsters?

Thunderstomps... *shrug*

Meh.

Would rather have the D3 wounds go against stuff with multiple wounds, I guess.

 

[DanBot]

Chiefs can't take regular stegs as mounts I think. So no bow for him.

For me the greatest appeal of the regular stegadon is versatility in lists. And I don't mean on the field. For me, stegs have become the biggest part of the LM army. I'd not bring a slann before leaving out my steg. I have 5 altogether now. And they can fit anywhere, hero points, special, rare. I have fielded all 5 in 2500 points with other monsters just for show, and because they fit. It's crazy! And with upgrades now, they have even more flexibility. I feel their really is a stegadon for every lizardmen list. It's not really about is the regular steg better than an Ancient. I like to think of all types as just stegadons and it's up to the general to decide how much value to sink into them, from a regular non upgraded to an EoTG fully upgraded stegadon, they are really about flexibility. Let the regular steg shine, and appreciate them as an option. Not considering the ancient at all(maybe you don't have the special to spare), the regular stegadon is a great special choice. He is a threat to so many things. And with sharpened horns alone, he becomes an instant threat to monsters well out of his pay grade. Well worth the points.

 

[Ixt]

Chiefs may take it as a mount, although they may not shoot the bow.

Even though he 'replaces' (read: takes the place of) one Skink Crew, and even though the Giant Bow only takes one crew member to fire... no dice - he may not use it.

Bleh! Hopefully in 9th.

 

[DanBot]

I never even noticed. That is actually kind of cool. I've never mounted one on anything but an ancient before. Stegs don't really need the help, but I think if he were able to use the bow that would add another +1 to stegadons versatility. I never really considered putting a chief on any steg as a good option. But if he could use the bow, that would totally be worth doing now and again.

 

[n810]

You can also make that chief a BSB to give the steg some abilites, also since you area large target it extends your range.

 

[DanBot]

That actually makes me rethink my "never put a chief on a steg" opinion. Probably still not the best place for your BSB or your chief, but I can see doing it vs the right army and with the right banner. Or even in the right list for that matter. I am oddly motivated to alter/make a new list including this.

I have a list for fluff or just flavor around my 5 stegadons. And my BSB is not on a stegadon! This now needs corrected!

And as fate would have it, I actually have a regular stegadon WITH a crew member that is removable. Also for fluff reasons I wont get into (considering I didn't know a chief could be mounted on a steg with a bow). But now I am going to attempt to convert my on foot BSB chief to fit there as well (since the skavenpelt can now be taken on a saurus, he is now useless). If it fails, I'll make a new conversion just for the steg.

 

[SilverFaith]

Some banner to help its charges wouldn't be completely useless Though it's probably mostly useful with lots of bunkered up units (Saurus or Skrox units), rather than the usual, spread out Skink clouds.

 

[Ixt]

I've done the BSB Skink Chief on a Steg a few times.

It's pretty fun to charge a jack-in-the-box Steg at the opponent, and the 37"-ish diameter Ld re-roll is freakin' sweet.

As a monster hunter, you have to be weary of losing combat, as the Skink Chief dies automatically when you break.

So, you could take the Discipline banner - Ld 7 Stubborn Large Target Cold-Blooded BSB is nice, if you're filling a utility role. Just remember: it will always be Ld 7 at best, no matter what.

The Flaming banner is nice - some stuff has regen, after all... and it's just really, really cool to think of an incendiary dinocow charging into its target and CONFLAGRATING ALL WHICH LIES BEFORE IT!

For what it's worth, it even makes the giant bow flaming. Flaming Poisoned Dinocow with a flaming poisoned fantasy railgun on its back!! METAL!!!!!!

The other banners are, of course, straightforward & very effective. Sadly, they're also much more expensive. >_<

Personally, I like this build (mounted in some fashion, whether BSB or not) and I've had lots of good experiences with it:

Skink Chief
Potion of Strength
Warrior Bane

Pretty brutal on a monster-hunting Stegadon, whether regular or Ancient.

 

[Putzfrau]

if you're going to be taking a steg its almost always better to take an ancient. The minor points increase is more than worth the extra strength for impact hits and stomp.

you wont ever be taking 600 points of salamanders, unless you are truly truly evil.

 

[Man0waR]

In one game i could test the difference between them

I fielded 3 !!! Stegadons. My list was a bit troll i have to say. wanted to try some things


So heres the record:

2 Regular Stegadon: Shooting did 1 wound over two rounds of shotings. In combat they completely fail to make any wound against 1+ AS. Neither in charge or attacks. Easy killed by Chimera or Skullcrushers.


Ancient Stegadon: Wipped out a DP on the charge. Survive some high strenght attacks where regular stegs does it nearly imposible.

So well if you want a monster you look for one who could do the stuff. Not one to send against poor or mediocre targets. You have better options for doing this with 230 points. The things a Regular Stegadon could do fine can be already done by a Block of saurus at the same points, or a bunch of cold one riders o what the hell, 2 scarvets or 1 oldblood.