AoS Starmaster or Kroak?

[ThePhilosopherX]

I've been building up a small Seraphon army with just start collecting boxes and some skinks, but I was thinking that I should probably get a Slann for all that glorious summoning and spells. Both the starmaster and Kroak can summon and are great wizards, but which is more useful? Kroak costs more points, but he also has more spells. Does that offset his cost difference? Which are more used in tournaments?

 

[GuaDan]

Hi, and welcome to Lustria!
Slann is more competitive and versatile, Kroak requires building the whole army around him and some luck with dice rolls.
However, 90% of players and store owners, be it GW or third part, will be more than ok with you proxying Kroak as a regular Slann or vice versa, so you can just buy the one you like the most for now.

 

[Deed525]

As stated above - both are as good as each other I’d say.
My preference is Kroak purely because he has the ability to swap from summoning beastie to mortal wound output central when you need him to be-
Usually spend the first 2 turns storing power to summon a basti/carno or Saurus (depending on need) then switch to dearhbringer - I use a priest/Astrolith and cogs:
+1 to cast means the skink more often than not gets the cogs off first go (not the end of the world if he doesn’t) this then gives Kroak 5x spells - store 4x for 12 cp and cast meteors (to dish out some mortal wounds) gain an additional +1 and +d3 cp for slaan general and bearer - there you go dealt damage and now own 14-16 cp.
Round 2 providing you aren’t being swamped by alpha strikers (if so then mash spells to shoo them away) if not repeat first turn - you have 28-32 cp to summon whatever you want (basti for 280 point return) and it can still shoot when summoned, then change stance to spell caster as the opponents will likely be on your doorstep now - so keep them stuck in combats with skink and pump out magical hate - did I mention I often use 2x EOTG’s as well?

 

[GuaDan]

did I mention I often use 2x EOTG’s as well?

Why not go 4x

 

[Deed525]

Why not go 4x

Lol well that is a possibility but doesn’t leave you much of an army ;D - I guess if you managed to get all 4 to churn out 20x skinks each in round one - then you’d have a bigger army than most (just with maximum annoyance minimal damage)...that being said croak could always call in a carno turn two - or screw it all and call in 6 lots of rippers

 

[Deed525]

Could actually work lol ;D

Kroak
4x EoTG’s
Astrolith bearer

3x 10 skink

2x 3 rippers

Balewind vortex

—1990pts

Actually quite tempted to field this and see if it works ;D

 

[nomis]

BOTH!

 

[nomis]

Im really, sorry but i cant find who recomended this list to me to credit them, but its absolutely killer! I havent lost a single game with it.


Allegiance: Seraphon

LEADERS
Slann Starmaster (260) - General - Command Trait : Great Rememberer - Artefact : Incandescent Rectrices
Engine of the Gods (220) - Artefact : Prism of Amyntok
Lord Kroak (450)
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (160)
Skink Starpriest (80)

UNITS
10 x Skinks (60) - Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60) - Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
20 x Skinks (120) - Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
6 x Ripperdactyl Riders (280)

BATTALIONS
Shadowstrike Starhost (180)

ENDLESS SPELLS
Balewind Vortex (40)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Prismatic Palisade (30)

TOTAL: 2000/2000

By turn two you can have a bassy on the table if you're that way inclined.

 

[LizardWizard]

Atm I prefer a Slann Starmaster over Lord Kroak. Both are very strong. What it mostly comes down to for me is the points cost. A regular Slann is 260 while Kroak is 540. If his Celestial Deliverance was still cast on a 7,8, & 9 I would use him all the time. As it stands I don't feel Kroak worth the extra points when I also have to sacrifice Celestial Configuration and Great Remember to take him.

This is how I run Kroak:
http://www.lustria-online.com/threads/match-play-lists-i-often-use.22659/page-2#post-272127

 

[Joshua Horchler]

Yeah Kroak has some clear flaws and is over costed, but he does fill a big role that our army struggles with, actually killing things. He is much worse at it after his nerfs but am I right that his comet spell has remained the same? So compare him to a Slann and wha t you are essentially paying 190 points for is a Slann that is harder to kill, generates CPs and can do d3 mortals to d3 enemy units, but you lose double tp.

Is that worth 190 points? It might be, especially when you consider the flexibility of some turns summoning more units than a normal Slann can and also forcing out some mortals with some decent rolls.

We get so much out of skinks at 60 points and I think Razordons are undercosted too. We might be able to eat the inefficiency of his point cost and make it worth it.

 

[Deed525]

He has lost some power for sure, but he isn’t too feeble, he’s only 450 ;D and he has a command point d3 addition every round which can be fairly nasty when coupled with an oldblood + Sun blood with gyrstrike (or whatever it’s called) 5 or 6 on hit to generate d3 hits followed by 5 and 6s to add d3 wounds, hitting/wounding on 2+s with 5 attacks standard -1 rend (+2 attacks for each activation of the oldblood on him) and scent weakness and/or Astrolith you re-roll hits he can seriously churn out some damage and ignoring rend 1-2 with a 4+ save and 7 wounds he is solid
I’d take that over flying dinos any day (that’s what rippers are for lol) and the configurations are good (when you get what you want)

Slaan I like a lot, but they are simply CP generators - but again you need to spend further points to get them doing a decent job at it (extra priest, Astrolith and cogs/balewind) so that’s a good 300 points on top of their 260, so 560 to get them to croaks summoning ability without the extra help - suddenly 450 is cheaper (and croak has the choice of summoning or magical aggression) add points to him (Astrolith/endless spells etc) and he gets a bigger boost - most armies come with an astrolith a standard anyway so boom no additions he gets you a free basti/carno or two rippers on turn two (so in my warped head that’s 280 of his points cost) without the risk or having endless spells not going off/dispelled or an alpha strike taking out the priest/bearer or squidgy frog) - give incandecents to the Astrolith as croak can’t take them (plus he’s hardy anyway) and you might just live longer

 

[Joshua Horchler]

This is how I would run it. It has a lot going for it. The Kroak and Incantor/Comet play really well together. The first turn if you want to you can summon 30 skinks for more defense. Another combo is Shadowstrike and comet. People will turtle up to protect things from shadowstrike which makes them more vunerable to comet. I have all the models except the actual Kroak model. I hope I can put this on the table.

Lord Kroak (450)
Slann Starmaster (260)
- General
- Command Trait : Great Rememberer
- Artefact : Incandescent Rectrices
Skink Starpriest (80)
- Artefact : Light of Dracothion
Knight-Incantor (140)
UNITS
20 x Skinks (120)
20 x Skinks (120)
10 x Skinks (60)
6 x Ripperdactyl Riders (280)
4 x Razordons (160)
BATTALIONS
Shadowstrike Starhost (180)
ENDLESS SPELLS
Everblaze Comet (100)
Balewind Vortex (40)

 

[Deed525]

This is how I would run it. It has a lot going for it. The Kroak and Incantor/Comet play really well together. The first turn if you want to you can summon 30 skinks for more defense. Another combo is Shadowstrike and comet. People will turtle up to protect things from shadowstrike which makes them more vunerable to comet. I have all the models except the actual Kroak model. I hope I can put this on the table.

Lord Kroak (450)
Slann Starmaster (260)
- General
- Command Trait : Great Rememberer
- Artefact : Incandescent Rectrices
Skink Starpriest (80)
- Artefact : Light of Dracothion
Knight-Incantor (140)
UNITS
20 x Skinks (120)
20 x Skinks (120)
10 x Skinks (60)
6 x Ripperdactyl Riders (280)
4 x Razordons (160)
BATTALIONS
Shadowstrike Starhost (180)
ENDLESS SPELLS
Everblaze Comet (100)
Balewind Vortex (40)

Haha it’s so dirty I love it, the meteor is evil thinking.
Honestly wouldn’t bother with the second slaan and priest though - would rather an engine and Astrolith.

 

[Deed525]

Haha it’s so dirty I love it, the meteor is evil thinking.
Honestly wouldn’t bother with the second slaan and priest though - would rather an engine and Astrolith.

Scratch that you need the priest for shadow strike

 

[Joshua Horchler]

Haha it’s so dirty I love it, the meteor is evil thinking.
Honestly wouldn’t bother with the second slaan and priest though - would rather an engine and Astrolith.

Yeah I was originally thinking EOTG and Kroak, but I think the Slann is actually more consistent summoning, you get the army wide bonuses, a good target for artefacts and double summoning. I like EOTGs too but I think ill try out the Slann.

The CPS from the Slann are great on Skinks. you can make them auto run 6 all the time and get everywhere you need to be!!!

I actually think it could be a dirty and competitive list, but it would take some good deployment, target selection and practice. It's biggest weakness is that it is weak to magic defense, but at least you can always just summon away I LOVE SKKKKIIINNNKKKKSSSSSS.

 

[LizardWizard]

Yeah I was originally thinking EOTG and Kroak, but I think the Slann is actually more consistent summoning, you get the army wide bonuses, a good target for artefacts and double summoning. I like EOTGs too but I think ill try out the Slann.

What do you mean by double summoning?

 

[Deed525]

Yeah I was originally thinking EOTG and Kroak, but I think the Slann is actually more consistent summoning, you get the army wide bonuses, a good target for artefacts and double summoning. I like EOTGs too but I think ill try out the Slann.

The CPS from the Slann are great on Skinks. you can make them auto run 6 all the time and get everywhere you need to be!!!

I actually think it could be a dirty and competitive list, but it would take some good deployment, target selection and practice. It's biggest weakness is that it is weak to magic defense, but at least you can always just summon away I LOVE SKKKKIIINNNKKKKSSSSSS.

Lol it still amazes me the amount of people who underestimate skinks
Always “I’m not worried about them”
Sadly all too often people then realise that they where never about their combat prowess lol - just endless bogs of the blighters

 

[LizardWizard]

Lol it still amazes me the amount of people who underestimate skinks
Always “I’m not worried about them”
Sadly all too often people then realise that they where never about their combat prowess lol - just endless bogs of the blighters

Skinks win games because objectives win games. Many players conflate killing enemy units with winning.

 

[Deed525]

Skinks win games because objectives win games. Many players conflate killing enemy units with winning.

Yes indeed

 

[Joshua Horchler]

What do you mean by double summoning?

I was comparing Kroak to the normal slann. Kroak can use all his spells to summon 2x10 man skinks. Slann can only get 9 points on his own.

I have a strong feeling they will nerf summoning in the next book to one unit a turn per slann but I'm thinking there will be a list of spells for the slann to pick from.