Star Trek vs. Star Wars (and a collection of memes)

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[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Spotted some Lego sets for Episode IX today (they’re always good teasers for what we’re going to see in new films). Was so sad to see that the Resistance will be getting Y-Wings and A-Wings as well to complete J.J. Abrams’ OT purist dream...

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Spotted some Lego sets for Episode IX today (they’re always good teasers for what we’re going to see in new films). Was so sad to see that the Resistance will be getting Y-Wings and A-Wings as well to complete J.J. Abrams’ OT purist dream...

The ST sucks. I have very little interest in episode IX. In fact, most of my interest is derived from my hopes that it will fail in the box office (not saying that it will fail, but I hope it does). It still benefits from carrying the Star Wars logo, so that will help it draw in some movie goers.

The bench mark of failure for me is if it makes less than TLJ. If it makes less than TLJ I will be extremely happy... and if it makes more...

 

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[Tk'ya'pyk]

Spotted some Lego sets for Episode IX today (they’re always good teasers for what we’re going to see in new films). Was so sad to see that the Resistance will be getting Y-Wings and A-Wings as well to complete J.J. Abrams’ OT purist dream...

Ironically, I just like those sets for the weaponry. A few of the minifigure heads as well. Very useful if you play, say, Brikwars... https://brikwars.com/

 

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[Aginor]

The ST sucks. I have very little interest in episode IX. In fact, most of my interest is derived from my hopes that it will fail in the box office (not saying that it will fail, but I hope it does). It still benefits from carrying the Star Wars logo, so that will help it draw in some movie goers.

The bench mark of failure for me is if it makes less than TLJ. If it makes less than TLJ I will be extremely happy... and if it makes more...

TLJ is (IIRC) the 12th or so highest grossing movie in history. Less than TLJ is pretty likely. I wouldn't call it a failure because of that. All Star Wars movies except TFA had a lot less.
But hey, gotta start somewhere to be happy.

 

[Warden]

Looking at helmets today:

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

TLJ is (IIRC) the 12th or so highest grossing movie in history. Less than TLJ is pretty likely. I wouldn't call it a failure because of that.

That's because as a die hard ST defender you're ignoring the financial trend. IF Episode IX falls short of Episode VIII, then that will mean that every Disney Star Wars movie has made less than it's predecessor, namely: (TFA > TLJ > TROS) AND (Rogue One > Solo). As a business that is not what you want to see with a 4 billion dollar IP; as it would mean that they are bleeding fan support. Hence, I will take that as a victory. Conversely, if TROS trumps TLJ, then Disney has bucked that negative trend and it will be a loss for fans of real Star Wars.

All Star Wars movies except TFA had a lot less.

I expect a little bit better from you. That is a very simplistic way of looking at things. There are some very significant factors that you have forgotten (or purposely chosen not) to consider:

• INFLATION!!!
• there are more theaters and theater seats available today than in the past
• the population of the world has increased (i.e. more potential viewers)

Ever wonder why most of the highest grossing films of all time are from the last decade (Titanic being the most notable exception)? Let's look at the top 20 worldwide box office grosses of all time...



https://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/world/


19 of the 20 movies on the list were released in the last decade (soon to be 18 of the 20, as Avatar will fall out of the decade range in November).

So obviously TLJ is going to have a greater un-adjusted gross than the PT that first arrived 20 years ago and the OT which first arrived more than 40 years ago. Plus TLJ benefited from the legacy of the Star Wars, it didn't create its own success.

But hey, gotta start somewhere to be happy.

Spoiler: You're right

 

[Aginor]

as a die hard ST defender

I am not. I mostly defend it here, because there is too much of the other side of the discussion here.

and it will be a loss for fans of real Star Wars.

Disagree obviously. Because TLJ=Real Star Wars.

purposely chosen not

This. Because you made the comparison based on now.

Also: What you stated is all correct, but: Moviegoers and their preferences are also much more diverse than in earlier times. At the time some of the top50 grossing movies were made there just weren't many other movies playing at the same time. Similar like with music. More genres, more new stuff playing ar all times.

If you look at them unadjusted TLJ is still easily in the top 100 (somewhere around 50). So what you wrote (the single criteria being that TROS grosses lower than TLJ) is not enough to judge anything IMO.

Also: yes there is a trend, but hey... a trend made of three data points? That's not much if you are still making tons of money.
As sad as it is (I would like the new movies to be better than they are, as everyone else would), that alone means not much.
You need more than just that (except if you are just doing it to be happy, then whatever makes you happy works).

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

I am not. I mostly defend it here, because there is too much of the other side of the discussion here.

I can only go by what I see on here. On this forum, your posts have made you the number one defender of the Sequel Trilogy. You have defended virtually every single aspect of it. Whenever I post something, you are the voice of opposition. In turn, I am likely the greatest (most vocal) adversary of Disney Star Wars.

Disagree obviously. Because TLJ=Real Star Wars.

At this point, that is objectively untrue. Recent revelations from Bob Iger's new book disprove your beliefs (search Bob Iger betrays George Lucas on YouTube for more info). In short, by Iger's own admission, they purchased the outlines for George Lucas' sequel trilogy and then decided not to use them. Suffice to say, the finished product was not in line with Lucas' vision.

So we are left with:

• George Lucas is the creator of Star Wars
• George Lucas' work is indisputably the "real Star Wars"
• George Lucas had created the stories for the Sequel Trilogy
• The Disney ST is not compatible with George Lucas' ST story
• Since Disney's and George Lucas' ST are incompatible, only one can be "real Star Wars" (they are mutually exclusive of one another)
• George Lucas, being the creator of Star Wars, trumps the validity of anything conflicting material that Disney creates

It is pretty clear cut. J.R.R. Tolkien is the ultimate source of real Lord of the Rings. J.K. Rowling is the ultimate source of real Harry Potter. By the very same measure, George Lucas is the ultimate source of real Star Wars. Anything that contradicts their work (regardless of the selling of the IP) is not "real".

This. Because you made the comparison based on now.

That makes no sense. Inflation would actually work to help TROS to surpass TLJ. My comparison holds true. However, your comparison of the TLJ against the PT and OT is inaccurate unless you consider the very important mitigating factors that I outlined in my previous post.

At the time some of the top50 grossing movies were made there just weren't many other movies playing at the same time. Similar like with music. More genres, more new stuff playing ar all times.

Actually, if you watch the box office releases closely, you'll notice that studios are very cognizant of not releasing anything of significance near other major releases.

If you look at them unadjusted TLJ is still easily in the top 100 (somewhere around 50). So what you wrote (the single criteria being that TROS grosses lower than TLJ) is not enough to judge anything IMO.

Unadjusted, TLJ ranks 13th.

Finding adjusted values for all the criteria I mentioned is much more difficult. Inflation is simple... but numbers of theater seats, population and global distribution are much more difficult.

I think you massively overestimate TLJ's adjusted success. (as a side note, even just considering inflation, I believe Gone with the Wind shoots up to #1)

Plus, it owes all of its success to the success of Star Wars in the past. If the Disney sequel trilogy was released today and the OT and PT had never existed, you'd find that it would have failed miserably.

Also: yes there is a trend, but hey... a trend made of three data points? That's not much if you are still making tons of money.
As sad as it is (I would like the new movies to be better than they are, as everyone else would), that alone means not much.
You need more than just that

I have much more than that.

• Solo lost money
• ST toys are not selling
• Galaxy's Edge is a huge failure
• there is a huge fan backlash
• Lucas and Hamill have trashed the ST
• Disney's focus on identity politics is fully apparent

You might believe Disney's excuse of Star Wars fatigue, but I can see it for what it is.

 

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