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7th Ed. Speed of Asuryan

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Keith

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Is there anyone out there who thinks this ability is a bit too good?

I only say this because every time I play against High elves they seem to kill loads of my stuff before I get a chance to attack, even when I get the charge! You can expect it sometimes, but it seems to happen with alarming regularity, even to the point where my warmachine hunters are being spanked by the crew of a repeater bolt thrower. I suppose you could put this down to luck, but it's still annoying. There does seem to be a distinct increase in the power of the armies that have been released since 7th ed. Makes me interested to know what the future might hold for underpowered races like Dark Elves and Ogre Kingdoms.
 
If your war machine hunters are dying to RBT crew then that would be down to your opponent being a skilled general :D
 
its funny that there is the power creep going on in the army books of 7th edition, especially when you think that they started from square one with ravening hordes back in the beginning of 6th edition because of the overpowered armies running around in the previous editions. Apparently they didnt learn their lesson :rolleyes: . Especially when you think about how they were trying to avoid making non-character models have multiple attacks in 6th and 7th edition because thats what unbalanced the game in the past (swordmasters, knights of blood keep, 1000 pt vampires....).

Anyway, yeah SoA is a wee bit overpowered. But it just means that we have to play up our strengths. Saurus seldom get the charge off against elves and there low initiative meant that we seldom attacked first anyway. War machine hunting still shouldnt be too bad as there are only 2 crewmembers for RBT as opposed to the normal 3 or 4. I think our army doesnt suffer as much as the dark elves or others that are fragile and rely on striking first from charging.

Ive had sucesss against the new high elves by refusing a flank and then just wittling them down with skinks as they make it to my main line. (And i avoid swordmasters and dragonprinces like the plague)
 
Having a highelf army in addition to my lizardmen (and others) I can attest that they are a tought opponent for many armies, but lizardmen doesnt seem to be one of them. Most HE units have a hard time with T4 and only having T3 and limited armor means they are vunerable to massed missile fire. Also we are one army that can routinely shut down otherwise devasting HE magic phases. As for some of the tougher HE infantry we have a counter for them. Dragon princes generally run in units of 6, which is very vunerable to a JSoD, and small and medium units of sword masters and whitelions are vunerable to salamanders and especially vunerable to stegadons.

One of the few units that we cannot outright trump is the phoenix guard, but again massed skink or salamander fire should thin the ranks enough for saurus or temple guard to wear them down.
 
Just a quick not about ogres vs HE. If they get their bullcharge the impact hits would still happen first which could be enough to get rid of their front rank, thus giving the ogres the first turn of attacks as normal.
 
Yeah speed of asuryan is REALLY anoying, but with toughness 4 sauraus there strength 3 attacks dont do that much even though they get about 16 of them when you charge.

Another bonus we have over other armies is 2 attacks as standard (Sauraus anyway) so we still get a decent number of attacks in return.

Salamanders are very nice against High Elves, well statistaclly anyway; last game i rolled 2 misfires and a 2 when rollinbg for my sallies then i didnt even wound at all! :bored:

And dont forget stack up on tepoks! But if they take book of hoeth (for all spells cast to become miscasts) there useless.
 
It can be a bit tough and require some careful maneuvering, but the trick is to pick when you're going to fight. Almost NEVER engage swordmasters to the front if you can help it, your guys will get butchered. If you have a reasonable chance of rallying (ie. close to general) then consider fleeing if you don't like the matchup they're causing by charging you. If this flee then leaves their flank open for a charge with something powerful of yours, then that is just too bad for them. Lucky thing is, elves are still toughness 3, and generally str 3 with minimal armour, so can be killed with just about anything if you play it right. shooting with sallys, skinks, magic, steggy's bow etc. can cause a lot of damage before their close combat stuff is in range to even do anything.

good luck

Apollo3
 
I've had to face recently a HE opponent who's force is almost entirely magic and shooting. 2250 list, 4 RBT, Teclis, a dragon mage, another mage, and the rest is mostly longbow men. My entire force was decimated by the time I had managed to cross the board, and my 3rd generation Slann looked small and sad in comparison to Teclis.
What can we do against this type of list?
 
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Speed of Asuryan is just to keep the HE competitive. Imagine them without. Because like Soh said, the power creep is coming back. Have you seen the new DE? ( Dark Elves not Eldar)

They are doing the same thing with 40 K though. So I am worried. Excpecially for the Dark Eldar Codex and Guard....... :jawdrop: Im screwed.......

Well at least Ogres will get Rhinox Riders (:
 
Makes me interested to know what the future might hold for underpowered races like Dark Elves
Click to expand...

You are not serious? Dark Elves are one of the most powerful armies in Warhammer right now?


And on topic, Speed of Asuryan is only a problem when on things like White Lions and Swords Masters.
 
Godless-Mimicry said:
Makes me interested to know what the future might hold for underpowered races like Dark Elves
Click to expand...

You are not serious? Dark Elves are one of the most powerful armies in Warhammer right now?


And on topic, Speed of Asuryan is only a problem when on things like White Lions and Swords Masters.
Click to expand...

I think he meant the 6th edition Dark Elves, not the 7th edition everyone's cowering from.
 
Bit of an old topic, but this part of the forum is fairly quiet...

Speed of Asuryan really isn't overpowered at all. Spearmen shouldn't be getting 16 attacks when they charge you, remember spears that move get one less rank attacking so they should get 10 or 11 with unit champ. If you charge them they will get the full three ranks, and either way they strike first. So unles you have cavalry, you should always let them charge you. Move your units right in front of them and shoot or magic them to make them charge you. HE shooting is quite weak, the archers are very overpriced and underpowered, bolt throwers are good but a bit overpriced and won't really do a lot of damage, especially if you are careful where you put your weaker units and try to hunt them quickly.

The main weakness of HE is low toughness and armour. Anything will kill them with ease. Their strength is that when they hit, it is hard so they leave little to attack back. Nothing will beat a unit of swordmasters in combat (even if you charge the flank or rear sometimes), you MUST kill them at range. Spearmen, however, don't hit very hard with only s3. White Lions don't have enough attacks to kill everything in BTB, so can be beaten. Their characters are a big weak point, overpriced and very fragile, there isn't much in the way of decent protection. They will all likely be holding strike-first great weapons though, so you need to kill them, this nets you big VP and stops him killing 2-3 models a turn. Challenge if you think your hero is tough enough, or just target a few attacsk from the unit on them.

I don't know if lizards have any, stegadon I think? But impact hits go before their strike first too, so chariots are great. The big units to watch out for are dragon princes and swordmasters.
 
strewart said:
Bit of an old topic, but this part of the forum is fairly quiet...

Speed of Asuryan really isn't overpowered at all. Spearmen shouldn't be getting 16 attacks when they charge you, remember spears that move get one less rank attacking so they should get 10 or 11 with unit champ. If you charge them they will get the full three ranks, and either way they strike first. So unles you have cavalry, you should always let them charge you. Move your units right in front of them and shoot or magic them to make them charge you. HE shooting is quite weak, the archers are very overpriced and underpowered, bolt throwers are good but a bit overpriced and won't really do a lot of damage, especially if you are careful where you put your weaker units and try to hunt them quickly.

The main weakness of HE is low toughness and armour. Anything will kill them with ease. Their strength is that when they hit, it is hard so they leave little to attack back. Nothing will beat a unit of swordmasters in combat (even if you charge the flank or rear sometimes), you MUST kill them at range. Spearmen, however, don't hit very hard with only s3. White Lions don't have enough attacks to kill everything in BTB, so can be beaten. Their characters are a big weak point, overpriced and very fragile, there isn't much in the way of decent protection. They will all likely be holding strike-first great weapons though, so you need to kill them, this nets you big VP and stops him killing 2-3 models a turn. Challenge if you think your hero is tough enough, or just target a few attacsk from the unit on them.

I don't know if lizards have any, stegadon I think? But impact hits go before their strike first too, so chariots are great. The big units to watch out for are dragon princes and swordmasters.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't quite agree with that. It's true that many HE's are weak and fragile but I think you underestimate them. If a High Elf player knows what they're doing it's a terrifiyingly hideous army to battle. Like this fellow I played last week had a unit of 10 Dragon Princes that had two banners (due to BSB) one made them immune to Fear and Terror, the other made them immune to ALL MAGICAL EFFECTS. That's a pain in the arse to stop! Not to mention he fielded a High Elf Star Dragon that tears up anything the Lizardmen can put on the field unless you get a great roll with something like Pit of Shades or Spirit of the Forge.

And Repeater Bolt Throwers? Keep in mind that since HE's need only 2 core choices for 2000 point lists, and 6 specials along with 4 rares, they can be ridiculous. Most HE's I've fought wield 3 of those RBT's on the field, which turns out to be a disgusting shooting phase, causing Panic and killing Krox's, Saurus, and Scar-Veteran's with extreme ease.

So maybe SoA is not that great, but the army is still extremely lethal.
 
I do not underestimate my own main WHFB army, and neither do my opponents.. They are a challenging army to use, but in the right hands they can be deadly, even if they still have big weaknesses. I speak from my experience using them, what I find most deadly, least useful and the biggest problems I face. My win loss record when I started with them was horrible, but now that I have a strong list that I am happy with and using every time, I am seeing more and more wins and more often than not my dragon princes do the most damage, and my bolt throwers never make back their whopping 100 points. Spearmen bounce straight off a lot of things, but against opponents with little armour they can be very good.

The star dragons are very very powerful though. I play in mostly friendly environments, not competative, so don't see the star dragon much, I have used him once to great effect though. All you can really do is treat it like any other dragon, even if it is a bit more powerful, the same principle applies. Though target the elf on top since he is usually kinda soft.
 
I play both High elves and Lizards.

I'd definitely agree that the high elves got a significant power boost since their last addition, and that armies released after the new high elf book have followed suit.

To say that the speed of asuryan rule is overpowered I'd have to disagree - my own track record was much better before the new rules were released than after. I'm only just getting to grips with how to build a good high elf army.

Things you really need to watch out for in a high elf army:

swordsmasters: these guys are phenomenal! I remember the days when my opponents willingly charged them (because after all, they're just squishy little elves). Now people generally understand that they're a nasty unit that should be shot at all cost. You've got skinks ideal for taking these guys down. Or, if you really want to hurt them, hit them with a stegadon and be done with it.

White lions: their high strength, movement through woods and relative protection against missile fire means that they're in a good position to hurt almost everything on the table. I would expect a skink cohort 16 strong, with a banner and two kroxigors to win combat against a unit of white lions of equal points (about 10 lions), but because they're stubborn you'd be hard pressed to break them. Your best best is to flank them as best you can and hit them with your magic.

everything else the high elves can field pretty much has obvious weaknesses. Dragon princes will tend to fall from barbed razordon fire. etc. etc.

hope this helps ;)
 
No, it isn't too good. High Elf infantry is really expensive and only t3. Dark Elves having hatred is a much bigger deal. We have cold blooded and one of the best infantry units int he game [Saurus with Spears].
 
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