8th Ed. Some Tactic Questions

[Slaantastic]

1) What do you guys find to be the "sweet spot" with regards to amount of temple guard you deploy with your slaan (particularly a life slaan). How wide do you deploy them, etc...

2) Can a Kroxigar go in the third rank of a skink horde and still get his 3 attacks? Just feels so wasteful not getting that extra rank of skink attacks in there.

3) Do you run Salamanders solo or in groups of 2-3? Personally, I have 3 models and am of the mentality that running them solo allows for much more versatility plus an upperhand in deployment phase. The downside, I suppose, would be their ineffectiveness in combat... but I personally do not run these bad boys with the intention of joining combat.

4) And the big one... how the heck do we use Saurus in 8th? For me, I just stopped bringing them because of how badly the spears got nerfed. Do you still bring them but with handweapon and shield? What formation do you run them in?

Thanks for the input guys. I'm involved in a massive 16 week campaign and am looking to dominate through rock solid tactics and list creation.

 

[Wolf]

1) What do you guys find to be the "sweet spot" with regards to amount of temple guard you deploy with your slaan (particularly a life slaan). How wide do you deploy them, etc...

I like running a unit of around 20, along with a Scar-Vet with great weapon to add some extra punch. Regenration on these guys for a 4+ AS and a 4+ regen? Yes please! And then start boosting their T and reviving them Just make sure to have a champion in there, better to have a champ than one extra guy, he's the first to be revived and will give you another attack in the front rank. I run them 6 wide. Make sure however that you're better of with an extra rank than you are with the Revered Guardian so don't drop a guy if it means losing the rank bonus.

2) Can a Kroxigar go in the third rank of a skink horde and still get his 3 attacks? Just feels so wasteful not getting that extra rank of skink attacks in there.

No, he can't. The rules for mixed units clearly state that they go into the second rank..

3) Do you run Salamanders solo or in groups of 2-3? Personally, I have 3 models and am of the mentality that running them solo allows for much more versatility plus an upperhand in deployment phase. The downside, I suppose, would be their ineffectiveness in combat... but I personally do not run these bad boys with the intention of joining combat.

I have 2 units of 2 in my army and they are game winners! As long as you have one left on one wound you can cast regrowth on the unit and you'll soon have the whole unit reappear These guys are extremely manoeuvrable and really bring the pain, if you're looking to win then these guys are what you're looking for. Don't go looking for combat with these guys, unless we're talking fast cav, war machines or light skirmisher units, 4S5 and 6S3 attacks is decent but won't necessarily bring you victory, think before committing them to a combat.

4) And the big one... how the heck do we use Saurus in 8th? For me, I just stopped bringing them because of how badly the spears got nerfed. Do you still bring them but with handweapon and shield? What formation do you run them in?

I bring 24 (6 wide) with spears and a Scar-Vet with the Crown of Command. I agree that we're the only race that haven't benefited from the new spear rules but come on, these guys are still amongst the best core infantry in the game. At 24 S4 attacks, T4 and a 4+ save these guys are still great in prolonged combats. I would have loved 30 S4 attacks as well, but hey, we can't have it all

 

[Slaantastic]

Thanks for the insight. I especially like the crown of command idea, because one of the things I was running into with these guys was that they lose combat rez by so much that they just get run down. Being able to tarpit a unit by making them kill every last one is a nice idea. Tell me, how do you get to armor save 4+ Can they use both their spears and their shields at the same time?

 

[MI_Tiger]

Thanks for the insight. I especially like the crown of command idea, because one of the things I was running into with these guys was that they lose combat rez by so much that they just get run down. Being able to tarpit a unit by making them kill every last one is a nice idea. Tell me, how do you get to armor save 4+ Can they use both their spears and their shields at the same time?

Of course. Spears are not 2-handed weapons. So Scaly Skin plus shield = 4+ Armour Save.

 

[Wolf]

Thanks for the insight. I especially like the crown of command idea, because one of the things I was running into with these guys was that they lose combat rez by so much that they just get run down. Being able to tarpit a unit by making them kill every last one is a nice idea. Tell me, how do you get to armor save 4+ Can they use both their spears and their shields at the same time?

Of course. Spears are not 2-handed weapons. So Scaly Skin plus shield = 4+ Armour Save.

Note though that they don't get the 6+ parry save as spears don't count as hand weapons.

 

[Lord Cedric]

Got a couple questions to add if you don't mind. I don't have the 8th edition book yet, but have read a few things on the forums and not sure on what they mean with the first question coming from the last comment in this thread.

1) Parry. Does every unit of every army get this if they have a hand weapon? Or is it army/troop specific? What exactly does it do - act like another armour save?

2) Double tap. What does this mean and what does it do, specifically?

3) For any shooting units that can shoot more than once in a single shooting phase, is there a penalty for the second shot? Or is it shooting as normal?

4)Which brings up next question: High Elves - speed of Asuryian. Does this affect ranged weapons and shooting phase too? My high elf opponent was rerolling all missed hits during first round of attack per turn.. that kinda hurt. lol.

5) What is the best tactic/unit to combat the Dark Elves hydra with Lizardmen?

sorry for all the questions.. Im sure I have more, but thank all who responds. Cheers!

 

[Ionus]

1) Parry. Does every unit of every army get this if they have a hand weapon? Or is it army/troop specific? What exactly does it do - act like another armour save?

Parry is basically a 6+ ward save if you have a hand weapon and a shield. Only infantry can parry if I remember correctly.

2) Double tap. What does this mean and what does it do, specifically?
3) For any shooting units that can shoot more than once in a single shooting phase, is there a penalty for the second shot? Or is it shooting as normal?

Double tapping is shooting 2 shots, like blowpipes. There is a -1 to hit penalty for double tapping.

4)Which brings up next question: High Elves - speed of Asuryian. Does this affect ranged weapons and shooting phase too? My high elf opponent was rerolling all missed hits during first round of attack per turn.. that kinda hurt. lol.

Speed of asuryan is for only in combat. It does not affect shooting in any way. In combat, they have always strike first, even with great weapons, and if their initiative is highe than yours, thhey get tot reroll misses.

5) What is the best tactic/unit to combat the Dark Elves hydra with Lizardmen?

I have never faced a Hydra before, but I'm guessing camo skinks or a scar-vet with special weapons
should do.

 

[Ionus]

Also, as another point from above, the spears is classified as additional equipment, which means you can choose to use spears or hand weapons. At only 1 more point a model, I reckon its worth it.

 

[Lord Cedric]

Thank you very much Ionus! Much appreciated. I thought My High Elf opponent was getting more from that Speed of Asuryian than what he should.. but I didn't have quick access to rules at the moment so we simply rolled for it. I lossed. Honored the roll results, but still didn't think it affected the shooting phase. His thought was that "they're elves so it should grant them bonuses with bows".
So with double tapping - can *any* shooting unit/character etc. attempt this with a -1 to hit? Sorry - just wanted a clarification on my part. lol.
Again, thank you for the help!

 

[BostonKaiser]

"5) What is the best tactic/unit to combat the Dark Elves hydra with Lizardmen?"

Shooting phase: attack first with salamanders. -3 AS and if you wound w/fire, it negates their regen for the round. Then follow up with all the poisoned skink attacks you can muster.

If it's still standing, The Banner of Eternal Flame will work the same way in HtH.

It's not a guaranteed kill, but then again, what is?

 

[Arli]

So with double tapping - can *any* shooting unit/character etc. attempt this with a -1 to hit?

No, the weapon (or creature) must have a rule that allows multi-shot. The best example is the blowpipe. Gnoblars also get this rule with their sharp stuff (thrown weapons). Dark elf crossbows do as well (they may not have a -1 though, not sure).

 

[Bibamus]

double tapping reffers to the Multiple Shot (x2) rule. if a weapon has Multiple Shot (xA) thet weapon can either fire 1 shot normally, or fire A shots with a -1 to hit penalty. blopipes are Multiple Shot (x2) while Elf Bolt Throwers can be Multiple Shot (x6)


regarding hydra: its I2, pit of shades is pretty sure to kill it, otherwise blowpipe it to death

 

[Lord Cedric]

Thanks everyone for the replies! I just received a PDF of the 8th edition rules, and saving some money to purchase the BRB.
Regarding multiple shot: My buddy plays Dark Elves and has been using his repeater crossbowmen's second shot without penalty. I didn't see in the rules where this is negated so will bring it up to him this week's battles.
I find it "funny" that Javalins have Quick to Shoot but Blowpipes do not. Considering the short range of these weapons, I dont' see why they can't be. Does anyone have "house rules" where they do? Any chances of Eratta for Lizardmen changing this?

 

[n810]

Slim to none,
it's ballenced this way so theres some advantage taking javelins, they do cost more after all.

 

[ThakCo]

They haven't been errata'd yet so they are not going to be. To me it makes a lot of sense for javelins to be quick to fire but blowguns not. All you have to do with a javelin is throw it. With a blowgun (particularly if you are planning to shoot multiple times!) you have to load it, raise the blowpipe to aim, then fire. That is not a very instinctive set of actions, whereas throwing something you are already holding is very instinctive and fast. Which do you think you would be able to do faster when someone is charging at you?

 

[Arli]

And, Lizards do not have lips, so blowing on the blowgun is that much harder!

 

[n810]

Or do they...?

http://scienceinsociety.northwester...art/paleoartists-see-bones-and-make-dinosaurs

 

[Lord Cedric]

Which do you think you would be able to do faster when someone is charging at you?

Coming from personal experience, Javelins require more of a steady arm along with muscle memory to produce a worthwhile throw. Yes, I can see your point in charges as I would think most any type of weapon which needed to be loaded would require "more time" under stressing conditions. But I wasn't referencing charges only either. However, not just any infantry/archery unit can take blowguns meaning that their proficiency is exlusive to their training and way of life. And reloading a blowgun seems to be a fairly fast action. A dart is not the same as a bullet in regards to handling. There isn't a lever or "clip" to load the dart either nor a cocking or pull of strings. Aim the light weapon, blow and it's gone. Perhaps i'm reading more into things than necessary which is usually the case. lol - faults derived from doing actual medieval combat. It's a fantasy game afterall.
Anyways, speed wasn't the issue as blowguns already have double tapping. Just the Quick To Shoot ability, which, in my opinion, seems feasable for blowguns... "perhaps" taking a -1 to hit when charged?

 

[Benny6Toes]

Also, as another point from above, the spears is classified as additional equipment, which means you can choose to use spears or hand weapons.

Unfortunately, that's not true. Page 89, 1st paragraph. If you take spears as an upgrade, then you use spears in close combat.

Of course, according to the rule fluff, it would also then make sense that you would also be able to use your shield to parry an attack, but whatever. Balance, right?

 

[Slaantastic]

Wait do repeater bolt throwers really get a minus one if they choose to multishoot?