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8th Ed. Slippery Sam, The Unkillable Oldlood

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Benny6Toes

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Caveat: this is for close combat. It's also an expensive character, but I've used him a few times to great success.

A little recipe I whipped up to annoy a friend (in good fun, of course):

1 Saurus Oldblood
1 Glittering Scales
1 Aura of Quetzl
1 Cold One

Stir liberally, top with Iceshard Blizzard, and serve.


How (and why) it works:
Oldblood has 4+ Scaly Skin and Weapon Skill 5. That gives him a 4+ armor save, and, unmodified, an opponent has to roll, at best, a 3+. However, in the vast majority of cases they're hitting on 4+ or higher.

The Cold One reduces the armor save to 2+, and since Glittering Scales is light armor, it reduces it down to 1+. This is great, but your opponent can still hit you. Not for long though.

Glittering Scales, being the lovely magic armor that it is, grants -1 to hit the wearer in combat. Now they're hitting on 4+ at best (usually 5+). Throw in the Aura of Quetzl, which also grants -1 to hit the bearer in close combat, and now they're hitting on 5+ and 6+.

Now, it's true that attacks always hit on sixes, but the trick here is that they have to actually roll a six, and if you cast Iceshard Blizzard on the unit that is in close combat with your Oldblood, then it's impossible to roll sixes. Wait. What?

The wording of Iceshard Blizzard modify the To Hit Value. It modifies the To Hit Roll; meaning you subtract a 1 from whatever your opponent rolls.

And there you have it. Most units can't hit you at all, and those that can will probably only be able to do so if they roll a 6 (which gets changed to a 5; since a 5 would get changed to a 4 it would miss).

And you still have 35 points worth of magic weapons or enchanted items to play with (personally, I like Venom of Firefly Frog and a Great Weapon or Halberd).

Even more tricksy: if you have a second wizard who knows Iceshard Blizzard (signature spell so it's unrestricted), then they can cast it as well, and its effect stacks (-2 to the to hit roll -- yay!).

WARNING: there is a good chance your opponent will let the first Iceshard Blizzard you cast into combat go. Once they see what happens, it'll a tad bit harder. Of course, if you're got two wizards with the spell, then you can force your opponent to burn dispel dice like mad since it only takes a 7 to cast successfully (10 with 48" range).
 
you should also add fencer's blades to that build for WS 10
 
Crown of command would probably be pretty nice as well so he won't lose due to combat resolution, (you know, three ranks, standard bearer with warbaner, and BSB for a total of 6, this could even go up with certain armies and their army specific banners. is high elves and their +d6, Skaven with their +d3, etc)
 
If you don't take fencers blades then remember though you will still have an advantage certain characters, note:Queek, get bonuses to hit and may still outskill you putting them back to 4's or 5's.
 
If you manage to get Iceshard off, then nobody is hitting you on 4s. Fencer's Blades is an interesting idea though. You could almost go without Aura of Quetzl in that case.
 
The downside to Fencers Blades + riding a cold one is that you won't get the extra attack out of it. Still, not a bad option for neutralizing whatever they try to attack him with.

My only misgiving is his relative lack of offense. Because of this, the enemy can afford to ignore him and target their attacks elsewhere once they figure out that they're not able to do reliable damage to the oldblood.

Many players do get caught up in the "I have to kill it at all costs!!!!" mentality, however, in which case this build should be pure gold.
 
Gor-rok said:
The downside to Fencers Blades + riding a cold one is that you won't get the extra attack out of it. Still, not a bad option for neutralizing whatever they try to attack him with.
Click to expand...
Actually you do get the extra attack. Read the section about paired weapons in the BRB right above the Magical Weapons list.
 
Yep, a paired wep if I do so remember. Actually this build would work with a Slann and light as well. Pha's Protection also adds a -1 to hit with shooting a CC attacks, and also means that cannons wishing to shoot at him (if he is alone) or his unit need to roll a 4+

A little more defense!
 
Gor-rok said:
My only misgiving is his relative lack of offense. Because of this, the enemy can afford to ignore him and target their attacks elsewhere once they figure out that they're not able to do reliable damage to the oldblood.

Many players do get caught up in the "I have to kill it at all costs!!!!" mentality, however, in which case this build should be pure gold.
Click to expand...

The trick to this type of thing is to run him in alone, so that there is nothing else for the other guys to attack. They must direct everything at the solo lord and thus accomplish very little. The Dark Elves have an especially nasty version of this they call the 'Unkillable Dreadlord.'

However, to make this work, you pretty much NEED the Crown of Command. On the upside, go ahead and get a great weapon. He'll still be there to swing it.
 
Indeed. He can make a great solo tar pit, and, for those that are concerned about offense, don't forget that there are still 35 points to play with for magic weapons/items in addition to any mundane items. 35 points can get you a nice, killy weapon to go with his 5 normal S5 attacks.
 
Unfortunately, the Iceshard Blizzard applies a -1 modifier to the roll. Modifiers do not apply to a "natural roll" which is what it says in the close combat section. So no matter what you do, a 6 will always hit. The best thing to do to really make him invulnerable is cast curse of the midnight wind on whatever the Oldblood is fighting. This will force rerolls of those dreaded 6's, meaning only 1/36 attacks will hit!
 
hrmmm...it seems you're (sort of) correct. IT does indeed say that a "natural" roll of a 6 always hits, but it also says (immediately before) that the modifiers can affect the roll itself. Too bad about the natural roll thing. You can modify To Wound rolls to the point of making it impossible to wound, but you can't do that to To Hit rolls? Lame! :rage:

Dammit. Now I can only mostly frustrate my friend instead of completely frustrate him...
 
Although this isn't directly on topic about an unhittable Old Blood, it is about needing to roll 6s to hit.

Does Killing Blow still apply if the model needs to roll a 6+ to hit? What if the model needs a 6 to hit but inflicts killing blow on a 5+, would a 5 still have the effect? My instinct tells me no about both, especially about the 5, but I can't find anything in the rules that says anything specifically.

All that I've discovered is the discussion about not being able to land a deadly blow on a snake (swarm). So, if it's hard to hit then killing blow shouldn't apply b/c they can't aim that deadly strike.

Now you can start to see how this would affect the unhittable Old Blood, an opponent just avoids the whole need to hit to wound to kill. If a unit of tomb guard send enough swings his way, they are bound to roll a 6, he is bound to fail his ward save, and then he's dead.

Thoughts?
 
Killing Blow would still effect the Oldblood, reason being that it is on the roll to wound that killing blow comes into effect.
 
If you are facing a lot of killing blow weapons, go with Gor-Rok instead, he's immune to killing blow.
 
Thanks for the responses. I completely misunderstood how killing blow works, that it's not on rolls to hit (like poison).

Thanks again!
 
If he has a 5+ killing blow but requires a 6 to wound then any roll of 5 fails to wound, but a 6 is still a wound and still a killing blow.
 
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