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8th Ed. Slann with Lore of Metal

Kinslayer
Saurus

Kinslayer

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I don't see a lot of people using or recommending this lore on here for their Slann? I tried it out today and this is an awesome build against Bretonnians. I think it would work well against other relatively high armour opponents as well (eg, Warriors of Chaos, Dwarfs, Chaos Dwarfs, Empire, High Elves even).

You can see the results I had with this lore in my batrep here; http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?349733-Lizardmen-vs-Bretonnia-2000-pts-%28-6%29-Massacre!


A few things about the Lore of Metal that stood out for me...

Searing Doom - this magic missile is awesome, and even the boosted version is relatively easy for a Slann with a free power dice to cast.

Enchanted Blades of Aiban on a Saurus Horde against Knights = awesome.

Final Transmutation - relatively easy to cast with a Slann and will either draw out scrolls or turn things to gold, this one would also be really destructive against an enemy horde. (Since on average 1 in 3 models will die)


The only 'let down' is Glittering Robe, which gives a 5+ SS Save which is all but useless for Lizardmen. Only Skinks could possibly benefit from this spell, but it still has its uses this just limits them greatly. (It's still better than Lore of Beasts with it's useless 6th spell the Slann cannot cast).



Has anyone else used this Lore and got anything to say about it?
 
Nice batrep and result.

Yeah I like and have had success with it against Empire, say goodbye to your 1+ AS Stank and BSB!
Metal is very good against the armies you have mentioned,
Unfortunately it is not as good against Ogres and almost useless against Daemons, two armies that I tend to have difficulties with, if their list is a strong one.

Thus, it is more common to see a metal slann paired with a different slann in a dual slann list rather than only have a single metal caster. This can help mitigate the failings of the Lore.

For this reason, I dont often see a metal slann taken in a tournament list (nor have I ever taken one to a tournament) because if you come up against a poor match up, it is often a guaranteed defeat.


Glittering Robe isn't as bad as it first seems, you can cast it on a unit of skink skirmisher w/Jav or on a unit of terradons and you can get a 4+ AS along with a -1 to hit.
If you can keep the unit from being charged, it can make a pretty nice hassle unit that can be robust from shooting. But the limited range of the spell does curtail this use to an extent so I guess it is more situational.

I guess it isnt recommended much because it is not effective against all armies. It is brutal against high AS armies so either you take a risk at a tournament and hope to get a good match up or you tailor your list if you know you are facing a low AS army and change the lore.
I reckon it would be very good in a team event where you can make sure you get a match up against a high AS army
 
Continuing to think about it.

Plague of Rust can be quite a situational spell, if you cast it early it actually makes your damage spells less effective, you are best to hold this spell back until the unit is in close combat so immune to magic missles and direct damage.

Also, given your sig you must know, people often can neutralise lore of metal's success against characters with dragonhelm or dragonbane gem, this gives the character a much better change of shrugging off the spell and carrying on. I often see Pendent BSB's carrying one of these two items exactly for this reason, it doesnt matter that it negates the pendent if you still get your 2+ ward.
 
There is an empire guy I have played a few times who swears by this lore. I haven't had much success with it, but perhaps that is because my list isn't built to optimize it's performance.

Rhodium said:
it is more common to see a metal slann paired with a different slann in a dual slann list rather than only have a single metal caster.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Or at least a couple skink priests.
 
Im not a fan of Metal at all, though i would like to be (for some reason). I just cant get passed the fact that it seems to be the only lore that has negative synergy with itself (you have two spells that lower the enemy AS, thus making both Searing doom and Golden hounds worse). ad the fact that you cant really use glittering robe (which imo is one of the Lores real highlights) and that final transmutation is pretty much a weaker version of dwellers, i find very little reason to chose metal over life (as LM that is)
 
"I just cant get passed the fact that it seems to be the only lore that has negative synergy with itself (you have two spells that lower the enemy AS, thus making both Searing doom and Golden hounds worse"

Yeah the poor synergy between the spells is very puzzling, how could someone write a ruleset with an obvious flaw in it?
 
I see Plague of Rust as complimetary with the two direct damage spells.

"Surely not!" you must be saying.

You shouldn't want to cast them on the same target. Gehenna's Golden Hounds and Searing Doom are for attacking small sized high armor save units. Plague of Rust is for casting on very large units with low armor saves.

Hypothetically you are fighting the Empire, they have lots of knights (groups of 8) and lots of spearmen with shields (groups of 50). Even if the spearmen were vulnerable to the two direct damage spells, 1d6 hits per spell isn't going to make a different, but it will devestate a knight block. However one Plague of Rust on a unit of spearmen and they lose their armor save altogether against your Saurus for entire rest of the game. I play a lot of enemies with a base armor save of 5+. If and when I try out the Lore of Metal I expect Plague of Rust to be my go-to spell just so I can try to stack the battlefield in my favor from turn one.

The way I see it, Searing Doom, and Gehennas Golden Hounds are intended for small high armor save targets. Plague of Rust and Final Transmutation are intended for very large comparatively weak troops. THe other three spells are in a vague middle ground and can theoretically swing combat in your favor versus elites or mass troops. There is synergy on the aggregate level, you just can't pile ALL of your spells onto one target the way you can with say the Lore of Fire.

I have no idea what to do against a large unit of high armor save enemies (negotiate surrender terms I suppose).
 
you sure have a point, but a target with a 5+ save will only get a 6+ save against our saurus attacks. hence you are reducing the save from a 6+ to nothing. this will result in 20% more kills, and that is very weak compared to most other spells.

if your target has a 4+ save, then it starts serving a purpose, but if it has a 3+ save you probably want to cast searing doom/golden hounds at it in the first place instead.

i am not claiming that the armour reduction does nothing, but it is highly situational, and fairly weak, especially if you already cast enchanted blades on your sauruses (and why wouldnt you wanna do that? its awesome!). then a 5+ save is already gone before plague of rust and only in the case of a 4+ save will it be marginally useful.

again, im not saying that it is worthless, but that it is worse than the other options.
 
I thought that the Lore attribute says it uses the unmodified armor saves, so lowering the armor save would modify it, and thus units with 2+ armor save would be hit on 2+ whether Plague of rust is cast on them or not. Could be wrong thou, just that I have wondered this for a while
 
Mahtis said:
I thought that the Lore attribute says it uses the unmodified armor saves, so lowering the armor save would modify it, and thus units with 2+ armor save would be hit on 2+ whether Plague of rust is cast on them or not. Could be wrong thou, just that I have wondered this for a while
Click to expand...

It DOES say "unmodified armor save." That's a handy tidbit of useful information. It goes on to say a model with light armor and a shield would take a 5+ up to wound. It doesn't say a model with light armor and shield not hexed is 5+ to wound. You can soften up a high save target for your Saurus to fight and still hit with Searing Doom to your heart's content.

I can see how some would see this differently so it's probably a good idea to clarify this with your opponent/ref before hand though.
 
that is a very good point :D

weird that i had never seen any one mention this before. good catch :)

(still im not seriously dropping life for metal, but it is a big point in its favor at least :))
 
Hi i'm new to warhammer just started less than a month ago, I'm also looking to play metal slann as i hate stuff with high armor saves! what i'm most interested is on mahtis' catch on unmodified armor saves. what are everyone else's thoughts on Mahtis' catch on unmodified armor save on plague of rust? what he says is correct?
 
it is indeed correct. i (and i bet a LOT of ppl alongside me :D) was simply not checking careful enough. this means all spells in lore of metal (with the flagrant exception of glittering robe) are useful to a slann, though three separate spells to reduce armour save is a bit over the top tbh.
 
Enchanted Blades isn't just about redcing armor saves. It's +1 to hit! It makes attacks magical, too. Toss down 12-14 BP skirmishers and watch them get their poison double tap at long range. And again on the stand and shoot if you choose not to flee. That makes for a lot of poisoned shots!

Transmutation is more about reducing enemy shooting and shifting the WS match in a fight than the AS penalty.

Not that I wouldn't love the AS drop in a battle vs WoC, Brets or Empire...

Just my $0.02.
 
magician said:
Enchanted Blades isn't just about redcing armor saves. It's +1 to hit! It makes attacks magical, too.
Click to expand...
Attacks are flaming as well, correct? That makes those skinks pretty mean for trolls, treemen, and ethereals.
 
Only the direct damage and magic missile spells are flaming. So no, enchanted blades doesn't make attacks flaming.

It does let you spank ethereals.

Either of the d6 hits spells has a decent chance to cripple or destroy a Treeman in one casting, so it's not too much of a loss.
 
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