8th Ed. Slann - just another level 4

[laribold]

Hi,

I'm interested in looking at whether anyone has used their Slann as 'just another Level 4' and the experiences they've had.
By that, I mean running the Slann with no upgrades or anything much beyond what a standard Level 4 wizard from any other army can get.

Each time I see a Slann, I often see them decked out with all sorts of extras and sitting in a big unit of TG. And then whenever I write a list like that I get very worried about putting upwards of 900VPs in one unit... The Slann feels like it can very easily become a points sink.

The list I'm currently thinking of trying is (as always) really tight for points and it would really benefit from support by the Lore of Light.


How does running a naked Slann on Light (or whatever) compare to running a couple of level 2 Skink Priests?
Has anyone run a no-frills Slann and if so, was it worth it?

 

[airjamy]

Never had any experience doing that, it seems that you are wasting so much potential when you are doing that. I think that the BSB upgrades and some way to improve the Magic phase are very much mandatory, i have seen no lists that have no room for those few points when they have room for a Slann. If you would go barebones Slann, i think i'd rather go Carnosaur.

 

[SilverFaith]

It generally doesn't seem to work, in my experience.

Just go for a bareboned build. Channel staff and 3 channel dice is good for giving you those extra dice to cast/dispel with, and doesn't cost you much. BSB with standard of discipline isn't an overly stupid idea either, making sure your stubborn block of coldblooded Ld10 never ever runs off. And it's relatively cheap for what you get.

 

[teufelhund]

In my cold one bus list I run a slann with wandering deliberations and that's it. My BSB is in with the riders and the slann just floats between units of skirmishers. WD gives him good flexibility and he's only 330 points. The spells are cheap so I don't have to worry about getting a lot of extra dice and what not. Eventually you win the dice battle if your opponent wants to guarantee a dispel on a hold out like wyssans.

I have also tried to run a basic slann just to have a lvl 4 to dispel with mixed results. It's pretty much a waste of points to not be used offensively, but I had some luck running him as lore of heavens and just dropping comets all game while he hid behind terrain. I still think two skinks with scroll and cube could shut down magic most of the game for a hundred points less.

 

[Scalenex]

I've run Slann that are not BSBs a few times. It is nice when a Slann doesn't auto-die when it breaks and Saurus BSBs are fairly resilient.

I just can't bring myself to bare bones a Slann. Becalming Cognition is very cheap for what it does, Channeling Staff + Harmonic Convergence is pretty cheap. Soul of Stone is pretty cheap.

I guess the closest I get to a bare bones Slann is a Forbidden Rod and Lore of Life and Becalming Cognition. I guess I could drop the Becalming Cognition.

 

[Slanputin]

It's rare that I take a BSB Slann: it's extra points for something I've not found too useful. Depends on play experience of course, but I've been fine without it.

I always give the Slann some magic buff however: there's a good many cheap(ish) ones that it seems a little imprudent to have such a powerful caster with nothing to give him a leg-up over any would-be Teclis's.

 

[laribold]

Thanks for the responses.
It's interesting how many people see upgrading the Slann as 'mandatory' (as airjamy puts it).

it seems a little imprudent to have such a powerful caster with nothing to give him a leg-up over any would-be Teclis's.

And this is kind of my point (as much as there is a point to this). A Slann isn't any more powerful or any better than a standard Level 4 from any other army. In fact in some regards, he's worse at casting than some of the Elven Level 4s on their 'native' lores (High/Dark etc).
Sure the option and potential is there to make the Slann a better caster, but you soon start paying for it.

It's like having the options there makes the temptation almost too hard to resist, but how many points is this taking up? And how much better does it make your magic phase for the points you're paying?


I actually had my first try out of a bare bones Slann last night. Level 4 Light and nothing else for 300 points (I had a Scar Vet BSB away in my TG unit). It was actually a mirror match of sorts against another Lizardman list. His Slann had a lot of the trimmings (WD, Becalming, Soul of Stone, Reservoir). That's 100 extra points to not 'waste' the opportunity of making his Slann a better mage. Sure, it helped him out a couple of times with the odd extra dispel or power dice, but I just didn't see it being worth 100pts. I can't help thinking that, in the words of Akbar, all these extra disciplines are a trap.

My Slann hung out behind my lines in a skirmisher unit, gave a Ld 9 bubble, cast his spells and got nowhere near combat. He miscast once (on 3 dice!) but it did nothing (rolled a 7).

To be honest, I went in with fairly low expectations and wishing I'd just taken two level 2 Skink Priests instead... But I have to say I liked it and it worked well for me (on this first use).
Maybe I was just fortunate to get good spells (Shems, Pha's, Speed of Light, Timewarp) and a couple of nice magic phases. My only concern was I didn't have enough ranged magic for the early turn phases (so might squeeze some points and fit in the Ruby Ring).

Feedback after one game.... Interestingly good.

Definitely trying it out again and will feed back.

 

[The Hunted]

I think everybody loves having a party-slann, with all the bells and whistles attached to him. Sadly, there are rarely enough points for that

I try to sit inbetween a fully decked out slann vs a bare bones one.
Either Wandering deliberations or Focus of Mystery and the BSB is what my Slann carries at the minimum.
IF I want more focus on magic; I also go for the channeling combo.

Just another level 4 with a good Ld bubble is actually quite solid in its own. But for just a little bit extra (WD or Focus of Mystery) you get a spellcaster that has a lot of versatility either way and is still cheap enough to allow other things in your army. Maybe that's also because I don't like to roll for my spells and finding out the 1 crucial spell is not in my repertoire for the game...

The BSB fits naturally on the Slann, because of his awesome Ld bubble. And besides, you have to protect your Slann at all costs anyway. Adding the BSB to him doesn't change all that much to me.

That's my view on the naked slann (not literally, thank goodness).

The Hunted

 

[Man0waR]

I've only used a naked slann once.

Lore of Beast one.

Great results since he casted boosted savage beast of horros affecting Slann + Oldblood + Scarvet.

Btw the slann took a challenge against a Chaos knight just for the laughs and smashed it.

One day I have to try a combat slann with paired WS10 magic sword & Lore of Beast.

 

[SilverFaith]

Lore of Beast one.

Great results since he casted boosted savage beast of horros affecting Slann + Oldblood + Scarvet.

Btw the slann took a challenge against a Chaos knight just for the laughs and smashed it.

One day I have to try a combat slann with paired WS10 magic sword & Lore of Beast.

Lord Mazdamundi on Beast is hillarious. It's super fun to see a dwarf players face when you cast horros to support your characters, and then tell him your Slann has 4 S6 poisoned attacks with ASF. Especially the ASF seems to come as a huge surprise every time

Naked Slanns are generally not worth it though, in my opinion. Beast councils can work, but that's pretty much the only time I'd consider it, because it means you can still have a "loremaster" Slann, or at least have all the spells you want.

Slann on beast with 2 level 2 skink priests.
1 rolls his spells, keeps both (optimally). If you get transformation, you've practicallly accomplished your goal already. Otherwise, you've taken 2 of the 6 spells.
Slann rolls, taking the remaining spells - if you didn't get transformation now, but got it on the first skink, you exchange that spell for Wyssans. You now generally have 5 of the 6 spells, which means no matter what the last one gets, he gets wyssans + transformation.

But in all honesty, this is effective because of the monster you get, not so much because of the Slann himself, but with such a setup, I generally prefer monster mashing, so dual carnosaur if at all possible. This means the Slann NEEDS to be as cheap as possible.

 

[Scalenex]

Slann can't take Transformation of Kadon, so you need to roll the Slann's spells first.

 

[SilverFaith]

Sure he can. He just can't use it.

I have just done it this way twice, and it has worked quite well. And if the Slann rolls transformation, he switched it out for Wyssans, and the last skink is now certain to get transformation.

I supose you could start with the slann, but there are certain spells i prefer on the slann, rather than a skink, and rolling on a skink first gives me more options I feel.

Though you could just go with the Khaine magic rules and get all spells regardless, skipping this entire issue. Also makes naked slanns far more viable to use. An End Times Heavens Slann can pull some serious cheese with that undispelable end times spell they have...

 

[Putzfrau]

Slann is more than just "another level 4"

Ward save, number of wounds, and special rules make his 300 points more than worth it with or without upgrades. His upgrades are just well worth the points and it's not as if the lizardmen book is overflowing with shit to spend points on

 

[laribold]

Slann is more than just "another level 4"

Ward save, number of wounds, and special rules make his 300 points more than worth it with or without upgrades. His upgrades are just well worth the points and it's not as if the lizardmen book is overflowing with I swear too much to spend points on

My point is that in terms of magic casting, unless you start spending extra points on him, the Slann IS just like any other Level 4 (and in some cases is worse Elven mages on 'home' lores, Grey Seers).

I'm not saying he's not worth his points as the things you mention (ward, wounds, special rules) are costed appropriately I think, but none of those things make him a better mage.
I was looking at investigating if anyone had any experience in considering the Slann just like he was a Level 4 from any other book i.e. 4 spells from one Lore and 1 channel on a 6+ and that's it.

I'm personally really wary of the points sink a Slann can become and wanted to canvas opinion on using him bare bones, or if you are going to use him you need to invest more in him, or if just having a couple of Level 2 Skink Priests would be just as effective as a bare bones Slann only cheaper.


As for the second point about the AB not being overflowing with stuff to spend points on, I beg to differ. I think the difference with other books is that Lizards need numbers/bodies rather than many, many different unit types. It's one reason I'm investigating the barebones Slann. To save even those 25-50pts from elsewhere in my list will seriously impact the effectiveness of my other units because I feel I have to spend the points on them to make them large enough to be effective.

 

[SilverFaith]

Slann is more than just "another level 4"

Ward save, number of wounds, and special rules make his 300 points more than worth it with or without upgrades. His upgrades are just well worth the points and it's not as if the lizardmen book is overflowing with I swear too much to spend points on

My point is that in terms of magic casting, unless you start spending extra points on him, the Slann IS just like any other Level 4 (and in some cases is worse Elven mages on 'home' lores, Grey Seers).

I'm not saying he's not worth his points as the things you mention (ward, wounds, special rules) are costed appropriately I think, but none of those things make him a better mage.
I was looking at investigating if anyone had any experience in considering the Slann just like he was a Level 4 from any other book i.e. 4 spells from one Lore and 1 channel on a 6+ and that's it.

I'm personally really wary of the points sink a Slann can become and wanted to canvas opinion on using him bare bones, or if you are going to use him you need to invest more in him, or if just having a couple of Level 2 Skink Priests would be just as effective as a bare bones Slann only cheaper.


As for the second point about the AB not being overflowing with stuff to spend points on, I beg to differ. I think the difference with other books is that Lizards need numbers/bodies rather than many, many different unit types. It's one reason I'm investigating the barebones Slann. To save even those 25-50pts from elsewhere in my list will seriously impact the effectiveness of my other units because I feel I have to spend the points on them to make them large enough to be effective.

Personally, I would really like an "ordinary" level 4. Maybe with access to ONLY high magic, T3, 3W, that kind of thing, without access to super upgrades outside of the usual 100 point magic allowance, for maybe 220 points or so. Anything that fills the gap between a pretty weak level 2 skink priest with very limited lores available, and the superpowered level 4 Slann with access to EVERYTHING.

 

[laribold]

A 'Skink High Priest' like you mention might be fun but for that kind of points cost you're not that much off a Slann, especially if you give them any kind of defensive gear (ward saves) then your only 50pts or so off the barebones Slann.

I think the point I'm trying to make is that the Slann doesn't have to be superpowered and that the barebones Slann can cover this base (or at least that's what I'm trying out).