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8th Ed. Slann channeling like a boss in 8th?

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gapton

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It just came to me that if we take the channeling discipline, plus Channeling Staff, that means in a total of 6 rounds, we will be getting:

12 magic phases in 6 rounds
3 dice thrown per channeling attempt
1/3 chance of success

12 x 3 x 1/3 = 12 extra dice per game!

an ordinary wizard gets 1 power dice 1 dispell dice from channeling per game without channeling staff.

That is pretty good for under 50 points (discipline + item)!

If you use it with Wandering Deliberations (8 sig spells), since most sig have low casting value, you get a boost in power dice, and has access to EIGHT spells with generally low casting value, and a WIDE variety of spells for damage/buff/hex etc.

Sounds like the Slann is gonna be a very flexible caster.
 
That's not exactly how it works - probabilities are not additive. If you set yourself up for 3 channel attempts at 5+, the correct way to express this mathematically is as follows:

1-(1-1/3)^3 = 0.704 chance of channeling dice per phase x 12 phases = 8.44 phases per game with bonus dice.

Not quite as great, but still formidable. I know I'm taking it. :)
 
rothgar13, you calculated the chance to get more than 0 and then multiplied it by 12 (number of rounds Slann is in play). Your 'average' is the number of rounds per game that the Slann Channels at least 1 die.
 
True that. There is the possibility of generating more than one die, I forgot to account for that. I'll have to refresh myself on how to calculate the expected number of dice per game - it's been a while since I took Basic Stats and the formulas I remember are giving me fishy results.
 
If each wizard is limited to obtaining ONE die from channeling per turn, then Rothgar13 calculation is correct. (1 minus probability of all three channeling dice failing)

However if there is no such limit, then my calculation is correct (additive).

I am assuming you can obtain 3 dice per turn from a Slann, because if you simply want to give the Slann an edge in channeling, all you need to say is "All channeling attempts made by a Slann succeed on a roll of 4+". Very simple.

Instead, the wording say you roll 2 extra dice. The fact they say "2 extra dice" instead of "suceed on 4+" seems to indicate the original intention was to give the Slann a chance of getting maximum 3 dice extra per turn.

This also goes well with the removal of Focused Rumination where the Slann can get up to 7 extra power dice per turn.

It just seems that in the process of "fixing" Focused Rumination, they came up with the idea to give him a slim chance to get 3 extra dice per turn. That way even with the most insane luck, you are limited to 3 dice extra instead of a straight up 7 dice extra in the 7th.

This also strengthen Slann's dispell power. In 7th he was a strong (imba even) caster and offers nothing special when it comes to defending enemy's magic.

The Slann is supposed to be the most powerful wizard in WFB, giving him a balanced and limited advantage in both casting/dispelling , instead of a HUGE advantage only in casting, seems like a very reasonable and well thought-out move from GW.
 
Fair enough - that makes it even better than what I initially assumed. Gotta grab me a Channeling Staff. :)
 
gapton said:
If each wizard is limited to obtaining ONE die from channeling per turn, then Rothgar13 calculation is correct. (1 minus probability of all three channeling dice failing)

However if there is no such limit, then my calculation is correct (additive).

I am assuming you can obtain 3 dice per turn from a Slann, because if you simply want to give the Slann an edge in channeling, all you need to say is "All channeling attempts made by a Slann succeed on a roll of 4+". Very simple.

Instead, the wording say you roll 2 extra dice. The fact they say "2 extra dice" instead of "suceed on 4+" seems to indicate the original intention was to give the Slann a chance of getting maximum 3 dice extra per turn.

This also goes well with the removal of Focused Rumination where the Slann can get up to 7 extra power dice per turn.

It just seems that in the process of "fixing" Focused Rumination, they came up with the idea to give him a slim chance to get 3 extra dice per turn. That way even with the most insane luck, you are limited to 3 dice extra instead of a straight up 7 dice extra in the 7th.

This also strengthen Slann's dispell power. In 7th he was a strong (imba even) caster and offers nothing special when it comes to defending enemy's magic.

The Slann is supposed to be the most powerful wizard in WFB, giving him a balanced and limited advantage in both casting/dispelling , instead of a HUGE advantage only in casting, seems like a very reasonable and well thought-out move from GW.
Click to expand...

Now imagine you are usually going to be channeling an extra dispel die as well, you can take the discipline to have the Slann squirrel away a single dice to be used as a power die in his next phase. So it is possible to use some of those extra dispel channels to boost your offense. I'll probably get the one to modify miscasts along with one of the Loremaster options as well.
 
The problem with taking a Channeling staff is you only get one arcane item per wizard. A channeling staff means no dispelling item, forbidden rod, or whatever arcane item(s) we get in the new book (if any).
 
Skink caddies exist, and they're cheap. I was able to fit 2 of them in my 2500 list fairly easily, so I'm going to go ahead and say the opportunity cost on this is minimal.
 
rothgar13 said:
Skink caddies exist, and they're cheap. I was able to fit 2 of them in my 2500 list fairly easily, so I'm going to go ahead and say the opportunity cost on this is minimal.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think two beast skink priest caddies are going to be the standard. Wyssan's is just too good to pass up, ask any Beastman generals, that spell seems to be their bread and butter.
 
Also the Cube of Darkness is cheaper but nerfed slightly. Makes even more sense to bring dual scroll caddies to me.

I'm loving these channeling shenanigans we can do now. Mix that with swapping out spells in high magic and changing your fate on the miscast table. Not bad, not bad at all.


Not to derail, but I'm surprised no one has been complaining about the loss of The Cupped Hands of the Old Ones. It doesn't even exist anymore.
 
That's part and parcel of 8e updates. If anything, I'd be surprised if anyone thought Lizards were going to get to keep the Cupped Hands.
 
Personally I'm glad to see the back of cupped hands. Encourages me to play a bit more carefully with dice and maybe even use those bound spells instead of gong overboard and dodging the miscast.

Speaking of which the channelling slann appears to be emerging as the default. What is the opinion on mitigating miscast through farthing rod or soul of stone?
 
GCPD said:
Personally I'm glad to see the back of cupped hands. Encourages me to play a bit more carefully with dice and maybe even use those bound spells instead of gong overboard and dodging the miscast.

Speaking of which the channelling slann appears to be emerging as the default. What is the opinion on mitigating miscast through farthing rod or soul of stone?
Click to expand...

Sort of figured cupped hands would be gone. I think soul of stone will be a staple of the slann setup. Earthing rod is nice, but the channeling staff will probably overrule that in most setups.
 
sirkently said:
GCPD said:
Personally I'm glad to see the back of cupped hands. Encourages me to play a bit more carefully with dice and maybe even use those bound spells instead of gong overboard and dodging the miscast.

Speaking of which the channelling slann appears to be emerging as the default. What is the opinion on mitigating miscast through farthing rod or soul of stone?
Click to expand...

Sort of figured cupped hands would be gone. I think soul of stone will be a staple of the slann setup. Earthing rod is nice, but the channeling staff will probably overrule that in most setups.
Click to expand...

Hmm, channeling staff as the default may just be our addiction to extra power dice, maybe people will come to eventually live with having a less impressive offense?
 
Why would you, though? What's the benefit of skipping out on it? I don't see anything as impressive as ~1 dice per phase.
 
rothgar13 said:
Why would you, though? What's the benefit of skipping out on it? I don't see anything as impressive as ~1 dice per phase.
Click to expand...

At extremely high levels of tournament play, say the ETC, players try to keep risks to an absolute minimum. You can't afford to let your team down by blowing up your Slann and getting absolutely destroyed. Personally, I'll go with the Soul of Stone and the extra channels along with Loremaster High magic and then if there are points the "save a dispel dice" one.
 
Qupakoco said:
Also the Cube of Darkness is cheaper but nerfed slightly. Makes even more sense to bring dual scroll caddies to me.

I'm loving these channeling shenanigans we can do now. Mix that with swapping out spells in high magic and changing your fate on the miscast table. Not bad, not bad at all.


Not to derail, but I'm surprised no one has been complaining about the loss of The Cupped Hands of the Old Ones. It doesn't even exist anymore.
Click to expand...

You know what's funny, is that the new standard arcane item is going to be the channeling staff instead of cupped hands... the item is exactly 30 points cheaper than the cupped hands, and the Slann's price went up the same amount.. coincidence?
 
The thing is, the way I understand how Disciplines work in this book, there's no reason you can't grab Soul of Stone, The Becalming Cogitation, and Harmonic Convergence. This is a "why not both?" scenario. The Earthing Rod is diminished in utility by the presence of Soul of Stone (cuts your chances of rolling either Dimensional Cascade or Magic Drain on the Miscast chart in half), and it's not like it's making your Magic phase any more potent. I'd say the risk is worth the payout.
 
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