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8th Ed. Slann and challenges

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Chameleon Skink

TheRolfgar

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The ability for the slann to be challenged even while in the 2nd rank stinks. I was talking about it with a friend and we came up with an elegant idea to the problem.

The temple guard are devoted to guard the slann, so why not allow them to accept (not declare) any challenges while a slann is in the unit with them?

I don't really mean this to be a house rule, but it would be an interesting change for our next army book if they do not fix the issue of the slann being challengable from the 2nd rank.

Good idea? Completely OP? I've looked into the eyes of chaos and am spouting off crazy talk?
 
I assume you mean any TG being able to accept a challenge for the Slann, but not able to declare them(seing as the a Revered Guardian can already do this, and even issue one if I'm not mistaken) But having any TG accept if the Revered is dead sounds like a really good idea, and definitely not OP, because I also enjoy playing VC as well as my awesome Lizzies, and VC Blood Knights can accept challenges as if they were a unit champion if the Kastellan is dead(a Kastellan being a blood knights unit champ) It's part of their special abilities, and I think the TG being able to do the same if they are with a Slann is not only a great idea, but also fits really well with the Fluff of Warhammer.
 
Yes, I meant allow the normal TG (non Champions) to accept challenges in place of the Slann. It just makes sense from a fluff point of view. They would not be champion models themselves and couldn't declare a challenge, they would only be allowed to accept them.

They could always go back to our old army book and put back in the "non-combatant" rule the slann had instead.
 
I like that idea. I think the Slann being challenged when in the company of his Temple Guard is absolutely silly. I think your idea would be a perfect solution. I hope we don't have to wait for our new book, an Errata would be nice (though I'm not about to hold my breath for it). If GW was so quick to point out that our Slann can't make use of the Transformation of Kadon, then why not show the same enthusiasm in addressing this obvious oversight on their part?!
 
another slann/challenge based question:

ok, we may not like the fact that our slann can currently be challenged, my question is, do we accept or refuse? as i see it, we really don't loose a lot by refusing, just the ability to use his LD (as far as i see there's nothing to prevent the BSB being used?)

obviously on the flip side, the slann may just shrug off the wounds caused with his ward, and prevent a bunch of TG dying instead...

thoughts?
 
I might possibly consider if it was a unit champion, but definitely not any type of character. Too risky, he has the potential to lose enough wounds as it is from miscasts etc.
 
I think also if you refuse the challenge and go to the back rank you can not cast spells as well. But another unit which is like the Blood Knights are the Bretonnian Grail Knights as part of their special rule.
 
strewart said:
I might possibly consider if it was a unit champion, but definitely not any type of character. Too risky, he has the potential to lose enough wounds as it is from miscasts etc.
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with T4 and a 4+ ward he unlikely to lose all his wounds in 1 combat, and untill the next there will be a magic phase probably where he regains all his wounds. my slann was in a challegne wit ha chaos sorc and nobody could score at least 1 hit. but i wasn't worried.

i do see the problem if you don't have life tough. also, healing pot
 
One way of looking at it (and it's the only way I can kind of get it to seem 'right' for me to play it) is that the enemy character issuing the challenge is not just standing on the front line saying "who will fight me? Nobody? Oh, come on. Please..? How about you, you fat frog? Come on, get over here..." He's actively movign around, looking for a decent target, pushing and dodging his way past the lesser fighters to get to the Slann.

The Slann can either move back a rank to get away from this, which I view more as the Temple Guard moving forward to put more of themselves between the enemy character and the Slann, and protect him (rather than the Slann actively moving back), or a better fighter needs to step up and get between the Slann and the enemy character (i.e. accept the challenge).

Sort of still keeps in the fluff side of things for me thinking about it in that way, although I do hate that it can be done at all.
 
Venom what a great way to fluff out a bad rule! (seriously not being sarcastic- I love it)

Can you fluff out why we cant drop rocks on the charge anymore?

Going back to the topic; can someone clarify what happens if a challenge is refused? preferable also give BRB page numbers plz
 
BRB page 102. If a character refuses a challenge, he "slinks to the back ranks," can't attack that round, and his Leadership cannot be used by the unit that turn. It doesn't say anything about casting spells, so I assume the Slann could cast normally on the next turn. Line of Sight would be a problem for most wizards, but not the Slann on his palanquin.

The wording does lead to another question. Since it specifically says that the unit can't use the cowardly character's leadership "that turn", does that mean the unit can use his Ld if the combat lasts to another turn? Or does the character move back to the front each round, possibly being challenged again?
 
In previous editions after the rejected challenge you were placed back into the front rank. I believe this happened after combat resolution so you would be in place for the beginning of the next turn. However, I am only speculating and cannot reference a page or FAQ about this.

But thanks for the clarification!
 
You wold think since we just got a new FAQ that this wold be in there.....
but sadly GW wsn't paying attention again.
 
I might be crazy about this, being new to LM, but how can the Slann be challenged? Challenges have to moved to base to base contact, hence, Make Way. But the Slann cannot be moved to the front rank of Temple Guard. He must stay in that spot in the second rank. I'd argue the same about being 'sent to the back' seeing as you can't actually be base-to-based anyway, and you can't leave your spot. How can the Slann go to the back, our books says to keep him in the 2nd rank?

Unless it says 'may', I don't have the book handy.
 
Hmm, good point. Our army book clearly states that the slann must ALWAYS be placed in the second rank.

However, the BRB states that to accept a challenge, the characters does NOT have to be in base to base contact. Even under the 'fighting a challenge' subheading, it is stated that it if is not possible to move the 2 models into BTB, the models are assumed to be in BTB anyway.

short answer, sadly, yes the slann is vulnerable to challenges. yet another reason to take a TG champ and lore of life to keep him alive!
 
walach said:
Even under the 'fighting a challenge' subheading, it is stated that it if is not possible to move the 2 models into BTB, the models are assumed to be in BTB anyway.
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Huh. That's a real bummer, seeing as that seems to be more in mind for models that won't actually rank up and face each other without causing a massive headache, not pulling models from the 2nd rank. Go ambiguous wording!
 
True, but i suppose the rules in the BRB are to cover most eventualities, rather than specifics (i.e. slann)

I'm sure i've said elsewhere on the forums, but i think the intention is that the slann shouldn't be challenged, but sadly the rules really do not support this at the moment.

in fairness there's nothing to stop you chucking in an oldblood/scar vet to keep him safe... although it gets pretty expensive!
 
I agree that Rules as Intended would keep the slann challenge proof. However, this is a game of RAW so we need to bring those champs. Because of this, in my opinion it makes Temple Guard needed instead of bunkering in Saurus. Just played a game with a saurus bunker. Was challenged and accepted with champ. Was overkilled by 3! Caused me to break instakilling my slann (cause he's also BSB)

SO what does this mean for all you new lizard generals? Temple Guard are subborn- so by bringing them, even if you lose you will be rerollable LD9 coldblooded. Add the gleaming Pendant (common magic banner) and you're almost unbreakable.
 
why would you bring gleaming pennant its stupid you cant reroll twice.... or can you in 8th?
and its ld 10 standard of dicipline ;)
seems really annoying just dont hope my gaming group finds out :rolleyes: lol well as chaos needs to challenge one of my regular opponents will find out :depressed:
 
Please check me if I am wrong with a pg number of the relevant book, but isn't the Slann "Placed" in the 2nd rank in deployment and not stipulated to always be in the 2nd rank? Also I don't see any downside to having the slann refuse a challenge, so you move him to the back rank, that just gives me a couple more attacks from my TG and I will still cast all the spells I want.

I can see that he would be vulnerable if getting charged in the rear, and you would lose a ld point but other than that I don't get the big deal with being challenged. I would just refuse and then use the extra TG attacks with a smile on my face.
 
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