8th Ed. Skrox and combat res.

[Hiv0r]

I was reading Dan Heelans twitter today and came across this tweet:

'Man of the match as usual - skrox block. 7 rounds with a letter horde life buffed'

Now I would like to ask why Skrox units are being rated... as far as I can see for every extra wound a Kroxigor can dish out compared to a Saurus they have to suffer the easy combat res of a T2, WS2 skink who only has a parry safe.

Despite Kroxigors being hard as nails for the same price isnt a Saurus unit a better all round investment can deal with more situations. If I was coming up against it I would just pile the attacks on the skinks to negate the strength 6 Kroxigor hits...

The only reason I can see for why this would happen is because he is relying on the +2/4 toughness and regrowth to keep the unit up while the str6 Krox grind the combat out.

This however seems to have the huge drawback of being completely reliant on the magic of the slann to make them an awesome unit where as Saurus although they can never punch out the strength 6 attacks seem more adaptable..

 

[strewart]

Here is the last time this topic came up.

In the use mentioned there, of just holding up a bloodletter horde for 7 rounds, I think saurus could do that just as well. The main advantage fo skrox units is that they are fast, that M6 really makes a good difference. The s6 attacks also allow them to punch through armour, while saurus will just have to chip away. As I mentioned in the linked post, they are not meant to provide the same role as saurus. Saurus are your tough line infantry that will happily take almost anythong on head first. Skrox are the faster and often underestimated flankers that harrass more than destroy, and if they get into the flank of a unit (perhaps even in support of the saurus at the front) they can cause some serious damage. Head on against anything stronger than basic infantry? No point trying, unless you want to keep them magic boosted the whole game, but then as you say might as well put saurus in that role.

 

[Hiv0r]

Yeah I knew about the other topic I wanted to focus less on whether they are good or not in that sense I can see there good but at the drawbacks of potential combat res. I mean why is a stegadon better/worse for the same str 6 attacks?

 

[Overhamsteren]

An ancient stegadon only has 3 attacks, at 291pts you can get 9 kroxigor attacks, that counts for a lot against cavalry, monstrous infantry, monsters and characters in units, all things were S6 can matter.

A strong opponent can also often chop down a stegadon in a couple of rounds, against skink/krox they need to grind away the skinks first while getting pelted by the krox.

Also skink/krox are core.

But stegadons can be great and it doesn't have to be either or.

 

[mixer86]

The reason i like skrox units is as overhamsteren said:

-They are 100 points cheaper than my 35 strong saurus unit.
-They have the horde rule (i use 28 skinks and 3 kroxs)
-The krox cannot be hit until enough skinks die that they have to start filling up the front rank, which means the enemy have to go through 20 skinks before that has to happen.
-Doing this makes the kroxs count towards your core points, which leaves more slots for specials, i.e. TG and Chameleons skinks.
-Their speed is something my enemy is usually concerned with so is afraid of being flanked by them when going against my saurus
-Skinks have their javelins so if charged they can throw 14 Poisoned shooting attacks at the enemy and being quite good initiative they normally go first or at the same time in combat as well.

I fully understand what people are saying regarding saurus but Skrox are underated IMHO.

Yours Aye

Mixer

 

[Carnivorous]

An ancient stegadon only has 3 attacks, at 291pts you can get 9 kroxigor attacks, that counts for a lot against cavalry, monstrous infantry, monsters and characters in units, all things were S6 can matter.

A strong opponent can also often chop down a stegadon in a couple of rounds, against skink/krox they need to grind away the skinks first while getting pelted by the krox.

Also skink/krox are core.

But stegadons can be great and it doesn't have to be either or.

personally I would not use the word "grind" against something that has T2. You "grind" your way through Ironbreakers and Blackorks...you 'slaughter and wade' your way through skinks.

As has been mentioned before, the weak point of the Skrox unit are the skinks. It is easy to loose combat as your opponent 'slaughters and wades' through your skinks.

Of course, there is a difference between the 1 Krox-10 skinks unit and the 3 Krox-28 skinks units and how you play them. The size of the former is to harass, the latter to "grind" through Ironbreakers and Blackorks.

And I wholly agree with what Mixer said, namely that Skrox units count as a Core choice. It's easy to fill up your elite choices as a Lizzie player so it makes good sense to learn to play with Skrox units .

Finally, here is the last and probably truest reason to use skrox units: they are fluffy

-Carnivorous

 

[Overhamsteren]

It depends on the opposition, when you enter WS4+ and S5+ saurus and stegadons die a lot too, and a lot of units seem to hit that hard these days. S3-4 and 2-3 base attacks is of course bad news for skinks and pretty reasonable for saurus to go up against.

Then there's also the fact you quickly get to a point were neither saurus nor skink-krox have a chance and then have to rely on magic damage, shooting, magic buffs and combined charges(or evasion) to save the day.

What is my point, maybe that skink fragility only counts when the opposition will not just kill anything we send their way alone anyway, which seems to be pretty often.

Maybe I'm just a bit jaded with saurus warriors after fighting 120+ dwarfs with great weapons last week.

 

[mixer86]

i thing i did do once was cast flesh to stone on them after casting throne of vines. meaning toughness 6 skinks and toughness 8 kroxigors, the look on my opponents face was priceless when this subsequently charged into combat against his 30 WoC, killed 8 warriors between them and all he could do in return was kill 2 skinks, fail Ld test despite having his wizard and BSB in there, and were run down.

PRICELESS!

Your Aye

Mixer

 

[crouchingotter]

I learned an interesting thing last weekend about Skrox. They cannot be stomped or thunderstomped.

Why not? You may cry.

Well.... it's because they're not infantry, warbeasts or swarms. They're a unique unit. As such not under the list of things that can be stomped on.

Enjoy!

 

[strewart]

Really? Surely the skinks in the unit still count as infantry and can be stomped even though the kroxigors cannot... I guess saying they couldn't would follow the same logic of why warmachine crew cannot be stomped.

 

[Juhaaha]

Warmachine crew cannot be stomped

 

[strewart]

... Yeah, thats what I said. I am still not entirely convinced the skinks in a skrox unit can't though.

 

[Xlcontiqu]

... Yeah, thats what I said. I am still not entirely convinced the skinks in a skrox unit can't though.

Well, the Skrox unit is a mixed unit and contains monstrous infantry models and infantry models. A unit can only be Stomped if it is infantry unit. So since the Skrox unit is a mixed unit, it is unable to be Stomped.

Not that I really agree with this, but I think the rules support the case for them not being Stomped.

 

[jormi_boced]

RAW says skinks can be stomped, but not thunderstomped.

 

[vapor]

I was reading Dan Heelans twitter today and came across this tweet:

'Man of the match as usual - skrox block. 7 rounds with a letter horde life buffed'

Now I would like to ask why Skrox units are being rated... as far as I can see for every extra wound a Kroxigor can dish out compared to a Saurus they have to suffer the easy combat res of a T2, WS2 skink who only has a parry safe.

Despite Kroxigors being hard as nails for the same price isnt a Saurus unit a better all round investment can deal with more situations. If I was coming up against it I would just pile the attacks on the skinks to negate the strength 6 Kroxigor hits...

The only reason I can see for why this would happen is because he is relying on the +2/4 toughness and regrowth to keep the unit up while the str6 Krox grind the combat out.

This however seems to have the huge drawback of being completely reliant on the magic of the slann to make them an awesome unit where as Saurus although they can never punch out the strength 6 attacks seem more adaptable..

Have you ever used them properly or are you just speculating?

I've been running a block of 22+2 with full command in a 6 wide, 5 deep formation since the start of 8th and they have never let me down... but I also don't do silly things with them like charge into the front of a large block of troops. They have the speed to get around to the flank or to charge cav or missile units-- use it. On a flank charge not only do you get a +2 combat res you also deny ranks (up to another +3), receive fewer attacks back, and will more than likely break steadfast. Don't discount the parry save on the skinks to save a few wounds either.

Do they benefit from buffs? You bet. However, everything in our list benefits from buffs and with the changes to wounding they actually get a bigger boost than any of our other units from Flesh to Stone (Speed of Light + Pha's Protection is also nice on them if you prefer to use Light). If you play them correctly they don't have to have it though.

 

[Gor-rok]

I learned an interesting thing last weekend about Skrox. They cannot be stomped or thunderstomped.

Why not? You may cry.

Well.... it's because they're not infantry, warbeasts or swarms. They're a unique unit. As such not under the list of things that can be stomped on.

Here's the thing: You buy the kroxigors as an upgrade to a unit of skinks, and skinks are clearly labeled infantry. Nowhere that I can find does it say that their unit classification changes to "unique", MI, or anything else when you buy the upgrade; if there is such text, give me a link and I'll be in your debt. If the skinks were bought as the upgrade to a MI unit, we'd be in business, but alas...

RAW, if the opponent wants to be a total cad about it, it could possibly be argued that he can stomp on your kroxigor if they're all thats left of the skrox- the models still belong to an infantry unit. Which is why I won't make an issue if someone wants to stomp on just the skink portion of my skrox unit.

RAW says skinks can be stomped, but not thunderstomped.

Note sure where this came from. Other than the D6 hits instead of 1, Thunderstomp is "...otherwise treated exactly like a normal stomp." (Page 76, brb.)

 

[Dogfisc]

The Stomp argument mainly comes from the Skaven FAQ answer about Curse of the Horned Rat not being able to target a mixed unit. However there is also the BRB FAQ saying that Stomp hits are distributed like shooting (and would thus, against a mixed Skink/Kroxigor unit, have a 1/3 chance of hitting the non-Stompable Kroxigor).

 

[jormi_boced]

Stomp says it affects models in base contact, which are skinks and stompable. The thunderstomp affects the units which are skinks that are stompable and krox that are not.

I would say you could T-Stomp and then anything randomized onto a krox would be ignored, but the dreaded 13th ruling says that you can't target a mixed unit with something that only affects infantry.

 

[Juhaaha]

Heck, if that's true I might start using big Box of Skinks W/ 2-3 Kroxies.

 

[Dogfisc]

Stomp says it affects models in base contact, which are skinks and stompable. The thunderstomp affects the units which are skinks that are stompable and krox that are not.

Stomp doesn't say models, it says unit.