What is the best size unit i should for Skinks.I us to us 12 but i think that might be to big.If i put 12 in a unit it will take 3 kills to panic them.If i take ten it will take 2 to panic them.I do not like the way in the knew book you have to buy skinks and skink skirmshers.If i am reading the book right i have to buy 32 skinks if i want to put 4 Kroxigors with the skinks.Pure crap.And you are paying 2 point to put skirmishe on your skinks.If i am wrong can someone put me right.
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7th Ed. Skinks
- Thread starter Bubba gar
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OldBlood
strewart
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Yep, thats right. I also think it is a touch overpriced. Skirmishers can be great because they have 360 degree line of site, can move in all directions very easily, and tend to be very fast. On the other hand, skirmishers cannot negate ranks and have no rank bonus of their own. I would actually prefer a small unit of standard skinks to use as flankers rather than skirmishers, since they are still just as fast and only a bit less manouvrable.
10 or 12 is a good size for a unit of them if you don't want kroxigors I think. They can serve two very different roles, one as a large unit for combat res and maybe hitting power from the krox, and be a very fast hard hitting unit at M6, or two as a small flanking unit that most opponents will ignore until you hit their flanks, give yourself the outnumber bonus when you add to your unit at the front, +1 for a flank AND negate their ranks. Very nice. Unless the opponent unit is very offensive and can kill 5 or so skinks with just their models on the flank, then they are a bit less useless except as march blockers.
10 or 12 is a good size for a unit of them if you don't want kroxigors I think. They can serve two very different roles, one as a large unit for combat res and maybe hitting power from the krox, and be a very fast hard hitting unit at M6, or two as a small flanking unit that most opponents will ignore until you hit their flanks, give yourself the outnumber bonus when you add to your unit at the front, +1 for a flank AND negate their ranks. Very nice. Unless the opponent unit is very offensive and can kill 5 or so skinks with just their models on the flank, then they are a bit less useless except as march blockers.
I always played against LM but now getting them again, but my view on skinks, used right they work wonders but at times they don't when a skink unit goes against heavy armored units they die quickly, posion only makes a auto wound, can be useful when you have no armor save but when you have a great armor save its bad!
I really would like to know how a unit of 12 with Krox would do as a flanker I think that it might be well, maybe 16 skinks with 2 Krox for flanking Saraus. Well I'm not their biggest fan but I think they have their spot against armys with little to no armor save, Wood Elves Giants Ogres, and other armys. Not like WOC Brets and others
I really would like to know how a unit of 12 with Krox would do as a flanker I think that it might be well, maybe 16 skinks with 2 Krox for flanking Saraus. Well I'm not their biggest fan but I think they have their spot against armys with little to no armor save, Wood Elves Giants Ogres, and other armys. Not like WOC Brets and others
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strewart
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By the time you have 16 skinks and a kroxigor or 2, the unit is getting up there in price for just a flanker considering it is quite fragile and only 2 of the models will actually do any damage, the skinks will just die and give away combat res... As flankers, I would prefer a small unit of cold ones to skinks and kroxigors. The type of flanking skink unit that would be most effective IMO would be cheap as hell, then you could have one or maybe 2 of them for each of your big blocks.
I wonder how 2 units of 16 skinks + krox's working together would work though... Neither is the hammer or the anvil, they just have to manourve in such a way as to surround an enemy unit so he has to expose a flank to one or the other unit, then charge them both in at the same time. Wouldn't be too pricy for a pretty mobile two unit breaker.
I wonder how 2 units of 16 skinks + krox's working together would work though... Neither is the hammer or the anvil, they just have to manourve in such a way as to surround an enemy unit so he has to expose a flank to one or the other unit, then charge them both in at the same time. Wouldn't be too pricy for a pretty mobile two unit breaker.
Kroxigor
msinosic
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Bubba gar said:
3+ Kroxigors is the unit size when fielding a unit of Kroxigors as a Special choice. That is, when they are not spawn-kin with Skinks.
When Kroxigor are taken as spawn-skin with the Skinks you may add one Kroxigor for every 8 Skinks if you wish. The are a unit upgrade, not a unit choice. You may have none. You may have 1 Kroxigor so long as you have 8+ Skinks or 2 Kroxigor so long as you have 16+ Skinks and so on...
Temple Guard
DonkeyHotep
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Just put 13 skinks in the skirmishers and you'll make the margin.
I personally love the skink+krox unit. The skinks really aren't THAT bad, though still marginally worse then night goblins, you have to remember that they are speed 6 init 4, and they come with free javelins!
I have two favorite sizes for skinks the first is 22 skinks with 2 kroxigors, makling a unit 6 by 5, good command and outnumber, and still only 240 points, which is less then a full block of saurus. If this unit fights something like Chaos knights, they'll kill skinks just as well as they'll kill anything else, and will have to consider Thwacking the Krox just to keep themselves from dying. That unit also scales up into the 3 krox unit with 2 more skinks, and becomes a 6*6 block, not that that helps since you can't turn.
My second favorite size is ten skinks with no command except maybe musicians. I use these units just to roadblock against people, deploying in a single broad rank, though they CAN rank up for an extra point of CR just to block units like marauder horsemen or spider riders. In a broad line they can still all Chuck Javelins, and can stand and shoot with all of them also, which can stall harassment units even more. The main reason for this squad is they can rush forward and die, but face at some odd angle, forcing people who charge them into a poor facing, either to get flanked, or to funnel them into something tarpitesque like temple guard.
Even without all that bother, a group of 25 skinks with no command is 125 points, and if they pal around with some cold one riders they can add impressive CR when they Cheese their way into a diagonal join with the COR, and will only be touching one model anyway.
I personally love the skink+krox unit. The skinks really aren't THAT bad, though still marginally worse then night goblins, you have to remember that they are speed 6 init 4, and they come with free javelins!
I have two favorite sizes for skinks the first is 22 skinks with 2 kroxigors, makling a unit 6 by 5, good command and outnumber, and still only 240 points, which is less then a full block of saurus. If this unit fights something like Chaos knights, they'll kill skinks just as well as they'll kill anything else, and will have to consider Thwacking the Krox just to keep themselves from dying. That unit also scales up into the 3 krox unit with 2 more skinks, and becomes a 6*6 block, not that that helps since you can't turn.
My second favorite size is ten skinks with no command except maybe musicians. I use these units just to roadblock against people, deploying in a single broad rank, though they CAN rank up for an extra point of CR just to block units like marauder horsemen or spider riders. In a broad line they can still all Chuck Javelins, and can stand and shoot with all of them also, which can stall harassment units even more. The main reason for this squad is they can rush forward and die, but face at some odd angle, forcing people who charge them into a poor facing, either to get flanked, or to funnel them into something tarpitesque like temple guard.
Even without all that bother, a group of 25 skinks with no command is 125 points, and if they pal around with some cold one riders they can add impressive CR when they Cheese their way into a diagonal join with the COR, and will only be touching one model anyway.
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strewart
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After recent experience against chaos, I shudder at the thought of knights. Hell even the warriors on foot can get a 2+ armour save!
Skinks and krox will not beat chaos knights in combat... They will kill so many skinks it won't matter if your krox wound back or not, and they won't care about killing a krox or two. They have a 1+ AS, so with the krox strength of 6 they still get 4+. 50% of the wounds you manage to cause through their high WS and T will simply bounce off.
Skinks and krox will not beat chaos knights in combat... They will kill so many skinks it won't matter if your krox wound back or not, and they won't care about killing a krox or two. They have a 1+ AS, so with the krox strength of 6 they still get 4+. 50% of the wounds you manage to cause through their high WS and T will simply bounce off.
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DonkeyHotep
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Yeah, but, you still wound on a 2+, if you throw 6 attacks, you'll hit with 3, wound with 2.5, and kill 1.25 knights, skinks get 7 attacks, 2.333 hits, 1555 wounds, and .259 kills, so on the charge you kill 1.59 knights in total. (average) If you get the flank, even with reduced skink attacks, you should win by a lot. If you charge them then with a unit of 6 knights you'll have....
4.41 knights making 9.82 attacks, 6.5466 hits, 5.45557 wounds, and no saves
They end up killing 3.8655 more guys then you, if they exclusively attack skinks. This means that with your 3 ranks and an outnumber, you win by .13444. 2 kroxigors and 22 skinks will in fact beat knights on the charge, though it is a very marginal statistical advantage. If they charge you.... be sad. Thankfully, that formation of knights I pointed up costs almost 300. A more fair matchup by points cost would be 3 kroxigor and 24 skinks, which on the charge could really mess these guys up... it might even be able to mess up the knights on the counter so... math time.
6 knights make 13 attacks, hitting 8.666667 times wounding 5.777 times on krox or 7.222 times on skinks,
dealing 4.814 krox wounds or 7.222 skink wounds. This prompts the same krox situation as above for 1.59 knights above with the krox being targeted, and... 1.875 knights killed if they swing on the skinks, with .872 being the number killed using abstract numbers of attacks.
If they hit krox, the CR for the knights is... 3.224 more kills then you (or 4.227 using abstract attack numbers), and 5.347 more then you if they hit skinks. If they hit the krox you lose by .227, if they hit skinks you lost by 1.247.
Also a skink unit 6 wide will kil .2222 knights with their stand and shoot reaction, which is enough to make the difference in the value less then a tenth of a percent if they choose to hit the krox. The fact of the matter is..... skinks and Krox may not beat Chaos knights every time, but they will beat them often enough, and will beat them REAL BAD on the charge, whereas chaos knights only beat you a little bit when they charge you. For a core unit fighting special, this is not bad at all.
Unfortunately, this math assumes that they have no marks, marks would screw you right up, most notably the mark of nurgle, which would make the kroxigor hit 50% less, or the mark of Khorne, which would make them hit more or less 50% more. (but for the cost of some of those marks....)
4.41 knights making 9.82 attacks, 6.5466 hits, 5.45557 wounds, and no saves
They end up killing 3.8655 more guys then you, if they exclusively attack skinks. This means that with your 3 ranks and an outnumber, you win by .13444. 2 kroxigors and 22 skinks will in fact beat knights on the charge, though it is a very marginal statistical advantage. If they charge you.... be sad. Thankfully, that formation of knights I pointed up costs almost 300. A more fair matchup by points cost would be 3 kroxigor and 24 skinks, which on the charge could really mess these guys up... it might even be able to mess up the knights on the counter so... math time.
6 knights make 13 attacks, hitting 8.666667 times wounding 5.777 times on krox or 7.222 times on skinks,
dealing 4.814 krox wounds or 7.222 skink wounds. This prompts the same krox situation as above for 1.59 knights above with the krox being targeted, and... 1.875 knights killed if they swing on the skinks, with .872 being the number killed using abstract numbers of attacks.
If they hit krox, the CR for the knights is... 3.224 more kills then you (or 4.227 using abstract attack numbers), and 5.347 more then you if they hit skinks. If they hit the krox you lose by .227, if they hit skinks you lost by 1.247.
Also a skink unit 6 wide will kil .2222 knights with their stand and shoot reaction, which is enough to make the difference in the value less then a tenth of a percent if they choose to hit the krox. The fact of the matter is..... skinks and Krox may not beat Chaos knights every time, but they will beat them often enough, and will beat them REAL BAD on the charge, whereas chaos knights only beat you a little bit when they charge you. For a core unit fighting special, this is not bad at all.
Unfortunately, this math assumes that they have no marks, marks would screw you right up, most notably the mark of nurgle, which would make the kroxigor hit 50% less, or the mark of Khorne, which would make them hit more or less 50% more. (but for the cost of some of those marks....)
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DonkeyHotep
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It should also be noted that Skinks give approximately 1 shit about being shot at by bolt throwers and crap, whereas knights are REAL SAD when stuff like that happens. This is the real power of the 30 man skink squad, you gotta kill a lot of guys to make them panic, and most things will be soaked by damage split.
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I figure 10 skinks is the best option vs chaos(my main opponent) as they should hold their panic with the cold-blooded rule, and even more surely within range of your general. the main reason I make my units the size of 10 is manouverability witch is essential to make them efficient. besides, they are easier to hide behind cover and other units like a saurus block so them pink horrors don't shoot'em to pieces.
By the way, I personally preffere to hide my skinks behind my blocks in this edition rather than have them screening in front. this makes me more resistant vs enemy march blockers like harpies, and with their relatively high movement, they can pop up and harry my opponent or target an angry bloodthirster when an opportunity strikes
By the way, I personally preffere to hide my skinks behind my blocks in this edition rather than have them screening in front. this makes me more resistant vs enemy march blockers like harpies, and with their relatively high movement, they can pop up and harry my opponent or target an angry bloodthirster when an opportunity strikes