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AoS Skinks Vs Saurus Warrios

Byte
Saurus

Byte

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Hello, everybody.

I currently have 24 Saurus Warriors and 48 Skinks. I want to increase the number of troops and have doubts about whether to buy more Saurus or more Skinks.

I've played with both of them and I like Skinks better, but I understand that with only 20 Saurus I haven't done well.

On the other hand, if you prefer to play with Skinks, do you think I'll need more than I already have (48)?

Thank you.
 
Are you wanting to start with these units on the table or are you planning to summon them?

Are you wanting to build towards a collection for use in tournaments or are you playing with friends?

Skinks will be a more common choice for summoning than Saurus Warriors. Warriors can be playable in Sunclaw Starhost or Fangs of Sotek.
 
LizardWizard said:
Are you wanting to start with these units on the table or are you planning to summon them?
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I will never summor Saurus. They will allways start on the table.
I would like to start with, at least 20 Skink on the table. I will summor more of them very probably.

LizardWizard said:
Are you wanting to build towards a collection for use in tournaments or are you playing with friends?
Click to expand...
At first, with friends. In a short/medium period of time, I want to go to tournaments.

LizardWizard said:
Skinks will be a more common choice for summoning than Saurus Warriors. Warriors can be playable in Sunclaw Starhost or Fangs of Sotek.
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Thanks for your answers :)
 
Byte said:
I will never summor Saurus. They will allways start on the table.
I would like to start with, at least 20 Skink on the table. I will summor more of them very probably.


At first, with friends. In a short/medium period of time, I want to go to tournaments.


Thanks for your answers :)
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In that case I would pick more Skinks before Saurus Warriors.
 
Byte said:
I will never summor Saurus. They will allways start on the table.
Click to expand...

Why would that be? Still figuring out summoning tactics, and it seems like summoning a 20 blob of saurs is the best way to use them, as you can drop a blob on turn 2 and 3.
I know it's popular to pop in a Dino with our summoning points, but I've had better luck with the 20 wound, 40 attack blob in my local games.

Points wise, I can't otherwise justify putting saurs on the table when I could have skinks or knights.
 
WizardinWinter said:
Why would that be? Still figuring out summoning tactics, and it seems like summoning a 20 blob of saurs is the best way to use them, as you can drop a blob on turn 2 and 3.
I know it's popular to pop in a Dino with our summoning points, but I've had better luck with the 20 wound, 40 attack blob in my local games.

Points wise, I can't otherwise justify putting saurs on the table when I could have skinks or knights.
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saurus are only good in blocks of 40 so 20 isn't a great deal and for 18 points you can get a lot of better options like 3 razordons
 
Erta Wanderer said:
saurus are only good in blocks of 40 so 20 isn't a great deal and for 18 points you can get a lot of better options like 3 razordons
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Mm... That's kinda a vote against them then. If their big benefit is numbers, then skinks are better body count.
If, I personally, was going to spend 330 points on a single battleline unit, I'd still run knights. The extra movement, the better attacks, and better synergy options push them head and shoulders above saur infantry.

Summon points wise, I feel it's best to take as much razordons in your original list, paying 120 for three is a better buy, and Max out your artillery limit.

The way I look at it that 18 points can get you

3 razordons (120pts)
Move 8, 9 wounds, avg 21 ranged attacks

20 warriors (180pts)
Move 5, 20 wounds, 40 attacks

The swingyness of the razor volley+overwatch and the meticulous unit placement requirement for saurus to get full attacks kinda cancel each other out, but it does make saurus more /reliable/attackers, with a higher potential attack maximum.

The bigger footprint also does better to block for more important units/objectives, and if youre going to throw either around with LoSaT, youre porting one 20 man block of warriors, or each razordon individually (unless I'm reading the summoning wrong.)

I haven't played too many games with warriors now, but from my personal experience, they serve a purpose as a strong secondary wave objective capper.
 
One big thing you are ignoring is that the 3 razordons will get to attack the turn they are summoned. The warriors will be out of combat until your next turn when they can charge, or until they are charged.

So, let's look at the scenario where the summoned units are charged by an enemy unit. Razordons would get 21 shots during your turn, followed up by an additional 10ish on average on the charge. These 31 attacks are 3+/4+ and ~10 have rend 1. Then, they get 9 melee attacks in CC at 4+/3+. All told, 40 attacks and about 13ish wounds, 10 of which are inflicted before your enemy even gets a chance to hit them in CC. Not only that, but on average 6 wounds need to be done before you even start losing any number of attacks thanks to their 4+ save

Now, the 20 Saurus warriors when charged, will get 20 3+/3+ attacks with their clubs and 20 4+/4+ attacks with their shields. This means at the end of the day you are looking at doing 14ish wounds. However, this assumes you strike first/haven't lost a single model during the enemy turn.

These initial numbers look similar (13 wounds vs 14 wounds), but the saurus warriors, when they lose even a single model in that squad, all of a sudden are looking at hitting on 4+ for clubs and 5+ for jaws as they lose their "to hit" bonus. Their wound output when they are a squad of 19 drops from 14 wounds to 10 wounds with the loss of a single model. Not only that, they have done no damage to the enemy before close combat, and odds are they will lose at least a few models with their 5+ save.

Now, lets look at the second scenario where you might have gotten a double turn and get to charge into the enemy.

The razordons will get 2 full turns of shooting, giving them on average 42 shots, half of those likely with rend. Then, they can also charge and get an additional 9 attacks in there. Their average damage output will be 17 wounds between the 2 turns, with 7ish wounds having rend.

The saurus however will get 1 round of combat, 21 attacks with clubs and 20 with jaws and shields. They will on average do 14 wounds, no rend.

The only place where the Saurus will really outshine the razordons is when you need more bodies/wounds. Saurus will have an effective 30 wounds and the razordons will only have 18. This means when you need something to soak up wounds, or more bodies on an objective, the Saurus will be the better summon. However, if you want damage dealers, razordons are probably the better way to go.

Also, do not overlook the fact that razordons are a more friendly summon since you can summon them over several turns. You always run the risk while banking CP that your slann could be killed and those CP points wasted.
 
Schwaaah - good post.

hm, maybe a misread the summoning rules, but i'd thought that summoning only forfeit's the unit's movement, so they could still shoot/charge; given, theyd need to roll a 9 on 2d6.

either way, now *im* struggling with wether or not my saurs will again see play
 
So, I believe you can charge the same turn a unit is summoned. However, being at least 9 inches, away your odds of successfully charging are about 28%, and it is unlikely all 20 saurus would be fighting even with a successful charge. I mean, even with a command point to reroll the charge, you are still only looking at 48% chance of success. I figured this was low enough that it wasn't too likely to happen, and it was more likely that the summoned unit would be facing down a charge or needing an extra turn to get into the thick of it.

As for Saurus seeing play, they definitely have a role in the Seraphon army. However, it's just painfully niche at times. They are great for gumming up the board and/or piling bodies on an objective for a few turns. It's just that in combat, razordons fill a similar role and can often put out even more damage than their 2 legged friends.
 
WizardinWinter said:
Schwaaah - good post.

hm, maybe a misread the summoning rules, but i'd thought that summoning only forfeit's the unit's movement, so they could still shoot/charge; given, theyd need to roll a 9 on 2d6.

either way, now *im* struggling with wether or not my saurs will again see play
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that is the current problem and a lot of people are upset about it and wan't a solid update to make them competitive. you can still charge but making a 9 to charge is not something you want to relie on they do get more attacks but at a worse hit rate unless you go clubs but then only on half and now half of them can't attack because of reach. assuming you get your charge off average damage is 9.17 witch is better then the razordons 7 but theirs always happens not just 36% of the time
 
maybe this should be its own thread, but while we're all comparing battleline units, what would y'all take as your tarpit?
something at max size to run up the center of the field and stick super aggressive units into a 2-3 turn stalemate while the rest of the team goes for board control?
could be warriors with the right buffs? (starlight/mystic shield)
 
sorry i forgot that razordons are still in the astroliths range when they fire so average damage is 9.33
 
WizardinWinter said:
maybe this should be its own thread, but while we're all comparing battleline units, what would y'all take as your tarpit?
something at max size to run up the center of the field and stick super aggressive units into a 2-3 turn stalemate while the rest of the team goes for board control?
could be warriors with the right buffs? (starlight/mystic shield)
Click to expand...
yes warriors with a skink general can take a heck of a lot of punishment hit them with starlight and rituals and they will stand for 2-3 turns where ever you put them
 
i still like skinks with there wary fighter you can pull enemy units out of alignment for LoSaT shenanigans and i have had opponents chase 1 unit of 10 2' across the board trying to catch and kill the buggers.
 
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