AoS Skinks vs Saurus (this is a frickin long post with wound output and everything)

[Canas]

I totally agree with that. Though that would mean Guards require change as well. Since they already have -1 rend etc. But forcing you to take a unit of 1 wound models on 32mm bases to get a horde bonus is not very well though out.

guards need changing regardless, they're all kinds of horrible the moment they face mortal wounds which is well, against everyone....

 

[Aginor]

guards need changing regardless, they're all kinds of horrible the moment they face mortal wounds which is well, against everyone....

Yep. Give them a Bastiladon style 4+ against Mortal Wounds and they will see a lot more play.

 

[Canas]

Yep. Give them a Bastiladon style 4+ against Mortal Wounds and they will see a lot more play.

Meh, I doubt that's enough. I'd say they'd need several things. 1) protection against mortal wounds. 2) more than 1 wound/model and 3) some mechanic to make them actually stand out, "sworn guardians" is a decent start, but it still sorta leaves em at "warriors but with better stats/model". Turn sworn guardians up to 11, For example have them ignore killing blows on a 4+ while near their ward.

In exchange some of their offensive power can be lowered, especially from the eternal starhost battalion.

 

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

I'm only playing Sunclaw this year and I'm testing out different ways to run it. The 40 man unit has so far slaughtered anything in it's way and remain undefeated. But it's a bitch to move around the board. What I've noticed so far is that 10 man units seem to hold up decently against most things, and with teleport, they're good chaff to screen the big blob. They also have decent tarpitting abillities. I've not done any math but this is atleast what I've experienced so far. Go be testing 30, 20, 10 in a Sunclaw the next few weeks. I know they loose a lot of bonuses this way, but as I mentioned that really is'nt that big of a drawback in my meta at least. Oddly low MW output where I'm at.

I am very curious what lists you went up against

 

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

Yep. Give them a Bastiladon style 4+ against Mortal Wounds and they will see a lot more play.

Yes! And along with a look out sire mechanic, make them into Actual guards! And Saurus should be scarier for what they are, I see black Orcs and savage orks all with two wounds and decent starting melee and I get jealous....

 

[Audvin]

I am very curious what lists you went up against

Mainly Free Peoples with lots of artillery, Darkling Covens with Executioners spam, Slaves to Darkness with loads and loads of Chosen and Karadron Overlords. So not exactly super competitive lists..

 

[Killer Angel]

Skinks are a cheap and fast unit, that can grab objectives and serve as disposable screen. They're exceptionally good at that.
Saurus are a slow melee unit, that works if supported. Their efficiency stands on an average level.

Basically, their roles are very different, so it boil down to what you need…. but skinks are better in what they do, while sauri's role can be taken by other units.

 

[Torxhol Drakescale]

After looking at both of our main battleline that I’d actually take (not a fan of single wound at 18 points when my friend likes lightning bois with mortal wounds) and reading a few threads here and there, I’ve come to the conclusion that skinks are thought of as low damage chaff and Saurus our are main damage horde. But looking at the stats and abilities skinks seem to be better off then Saurus even in terms of damage unless you take them in max squads and rely on heavy buffs that aren’t easy for me to put points into since I like summoning lists and play at 1k almost exclusively (the easiest tourneys for me to go too are also 1k but I guess it’s normal for them to be 2k since most tourney lists I see are 2k)

So a unit of 40 Dino’s is like 360 points and realistically should be able to get two ranks of ten into fisticuffs distance, which is like 40 attacks 3 up which is approx. 27 hits which is approx 13.5 wounds. And then another 10 bites which should deal approx 2.5 wounds. Now 16 wounds is kinda meh especially when compared to skeletons... I have an issue where I compare hordes to skeletons lol, skellies get around 20 wounds a fight phase and are cheaper, plus I believe have smaller base size so they can get more guys and gals to do a stab. Now we do have THE WARUDO... ahem teleports thru space and time which is prolly why we don’t get stronk but still it means we are a crap Ally at times...But then I saw that beautiful golden gal (I’m assuming she’s old cuz she’s a vet) the scar vet on t-Rex! So anyways carny with dulled teeth and I wish I had sun powers Phil buff Saurus to new heights! Heck I’ll even add rerolls to the party train! So 40 attacks with the two buffs is around! And they get about 42 hits omg! Which is 21 wounds and they didn’t even chomp yet! So after bites we get approx. 26 wounds! (These numbers are not exact gimme a plus or minus of 2 wounds for the range)

Edit*took out skinks math cuz i made a mistake


Sorry if this thread already exists I looked for it but couldn’t find anything
Also sorry for the silliness just me tryna be funny lol

See, I don't like running a horde though, so I tend to take an Eternal Starhost (So I can end up with a 2 up save, and stupid objective holding capability) and 3 starpriests, so I can cast mystic shield and reroll 1's, with skinks in the back as ranged support, Usually bricks of 20 for a 4/4 javelin attack, and the meta in my area is heavy competitive (lots of DoK and Lon, with a sprinkling of Sigmarines), with quite a few cheese lists, and I manage to take home a win relatively often. against DoK though, I tend to take a bit more skinks to soak the mortals, and I generally take a Bastiladon or 2. The other 2 behemoth slots are usually filled by stegadons, to splatter aelves and dust skellies alike.

 

[Audvin]

5/5/5 Eternal Starhost ? Not a lot of mW resilience though.

 

[Torxhol Drakescale]

See, I don't like running a horde though, so I tend to take an Eternal Starhost (So I can end up with a 2 up save, and stupid objective holding capability) and 3 starpriests, so I can cast mystic shield and reroll 1's, with skinks in the back as ranged support, Usually bricks of 20 for a 4/4 javelin attack, and the meta in my area is heavy competitive (lots of DoK and Lon, with a sprinkling of Sigmarines), with quite a few cheese lists, and I manage to take home a win relatively often. against DoK though, I tend to take a bit more skinks to soak the mortals, and I generally take a Bastiladon or 2. The other 2 behemoth slots are usually filled by stegadons, to splatter aelves and dust skellies alike.

5/5/5 Eternal Starhost ? Not a lot of mW resilience though.

That's why I go heavier skink with high MW opponents.

 

[Torxhol Drakescale]

That's why I go heavier skink with high MW opponents.

Because a 10/10/10 eternal is nigh on immortal

5/5/5 Eternal Starhost ? Not a lot of mW resilience though.

It also occurs to me, we're talking about a smaller scale battle here. I tend to play between 750 and 1500, and when we want something as small scale as 500 points we just play skirmish, or PtG

 

[Putzfrau]

Meh, I doubt that's enough. I'd say they'd need several things. 1) protection against mortal wounds. 2) more than 1 wound/model and 3) some mechanic to make them actually stand out, "sworn guardians" is a decent start, but it still sorta leaves em at "warriors but with better stats/model". Turn sworn guardians up to 11, For example have them ignore killing blows on a 4+ while near their ward.

In exchange some of their offensive power can be lowered, especially from the eternal starhost battalion.

That seems like a lot... a 4+ MW save would easily make them one of the most resilient units in the game, assuming you're still running then in the starhost.

 

[Canas]

That seems like a lot... a 4+ MW save would easily make them one of the most resilient units in the game, assuming you're still running then in the starhost.

Possibly, but it is kind of what I'd go for with em. Fluff-wise they should be an unmoveable barrier so being one of the most resilient units in game would make sense. They're supposed to be able to guard an objective for milenia against overwhelming odds. So yeah, making it "a lot" would be acceptable .

Having said that, of course it still needs to ultimatly be balanced. If 5 guards can hold of half an army on their own due to how sturdy they are we'l have some other issues, even if fluff-wise it'd make sense.

 

[Killer Angel]

For Guards, it would be nice a mechanic similar to the one of fyreslayers.
Up to 10, they ignore wounds on a 6+
Up to 20, they ignore wounds on a 5+

 

[Canas]

For Guards, it would be nice a mechanic similar to the one of fyreslayers.
Up to 10, they ignore wounds on a 6+
Up to 20, they ignore wounds on a 5+

that'd give us yet another horde unit though. We have enough of those.

What about:
while protecting 1 hero ignore wounds on a 6+
While protecting 2 heroes ignore wounds on a 5+
When starting the turn next to an objective, the objective counts as 1 hero.

This way positioning matters and it would tie in more with their identity as guards as opposed to being horde related.

 

[Killer Angel]

that'd give us yet another horde unit though. We have enough of those.

What about:
while protecting 1 hero ignore wounds on a 6+
While protecting 2 heroes ignore wounds on a 5+
When starting the turn next to an objective, the objective counts as 1 hero.

This way positioning matters and it would tie in more with their identity as guards as opposed to being horde related.

yeah, that would be nice, and would highlight their "guardian role".

 

[Torxhol Drakescale]

Jesus someone needs to airdrop this conversation in leaflets over Nottingham.

 

[ILKAIN]

Jesus someone needs to airdrop this conversation in leaflets over Nottingham.

I did fly Blackhawks in the army, and may or may not have participated in "psychological warfare missions" in Afghanistan and Iraq. just saying

 

[Torxhol Drakescale]

No no no, find a different word for warfare- Hearts and minds. We need hearts and minds, specifically those of Kevin Rountree