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7th Ed. Skink Skirmishers... how to best use them?

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skinker

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I've got a load of questions about utilizing the skink skirmishers. Please feel free to answer 1 or all of them!

Regarding their blowpipes... Do these suffer the normal penalties for moving and shooting, and being out of range? For example, if I march up to within 12 inches of an enemy, at BS 3 I'm only hitting on a 6 right? Now, this isn't so bad since the 6 auto wounds with poison... but if you add in the multiple shot rule (to get 2 shots each) then you can't even hit on a 6 which negates the poison? Am I interpretating all of this correctly?

What tactics do you use with your skirmishers? Do you always flee charges with them since they have no chance of surviving a close combat with toughness 2? Or do you perhaps stand and shoot, sacrificing the unit for maybe 2 or 3 wounds on the charger? Can skirmishers even shoot on the same turn in which they have rallied?

Is there anything else I should know about these little lizards? I like the concept of being able to shoot in 2 ranks, 2 times each... 10 little skinkers in a unit gives me 20 shots which should wound 3 or 4 unarmored opponents per turn... Its just too bad their strength is only 3!

Thanks for your time and feedback.
 
OK you still suffer from move and shoot and the over half distance rule. As for stand and shoot or flee it really depends on the type of unit for the correct choice. You are not allowed to shoot after you rally so most of the time stand and shoot would be the right response. Also you can not march and shoot you can only go half the distance if you still want to shoot after.
 
Unless you have a decent chance of killing the enemy on the stand and shoot, flee. The only situations where you can wipe a unit on the stand and shoot is vs fast cav or a giant that you shoot in your turn then get charged by the survivors, so 95% of the cases flee is the only good response. A lot of people treat their "throw away units" as garbage but there is no point in giving away free pts if you don't have to, if the unit is just going to die then why would you stand and shoot? If you get charged in turn 3 then then you miss out 1 turn of shooting if you flee, while you miss out 3 turns of shooting if you stand and shoot and die, as well as giving up VPs. Skinks are awesome at capturing / contesting board quarters, so they are very useful if they're still alive in the last turns.

I usually play 3-5 skinks units (often 3 skirmishers and 2 cammo skink untis) and I usually just shove them in the enemys face in a way that if they charge them I have saurus or CoC to counter charge in a favourable manner, and if they don't they'll eat a ton of poison.
 
Wouldn't killing enough to cause a panic test at least be a consideration in determining whether to stand and shoot or not?

Lets say a unit of 10, low armor is charging. I know I can't wipe them out, but there's a decent chance I'll get at least 3 wounds. If its on a flank (where I plan to run the skinks, odds are they aren't benefiting from general's leadership which would mean they have around 7 leadership. I have a little less than 50% chance of causing them to turn and flee the next turn, and I can then shoot them in the ass for another 3 wounds on my turn. Wouldn't this potential be worth the possible sacrifice of a 70 point unit?
 
I want to get this right. My opponent yesterday said that skink blowpipe shooting did not suffer a -1 for shooting over half of their range. I tried to argue but another guy at the shop also said I was wrong. So, I shut up and took my shots without the penalty.

Since we are already on the topic, anyone mind clearing this one up? Their argument was since it was a short range weapon that it did not suffer the penalty for shooting over 6" while I thought they still did. I didn't bother wasting time looking the rule up.
 
As far as I know, the only weapons that do not suffer the -1 for long range are thrown weapons.
on page 49 of the lizardmen army book are the rules for blowpipes and they do not mention anything about not suffering -1 on long range.

So I'd assume that they do suffer -1 at long range.
 
I took the time to look up the rule and blowpipes do suffer from the long range -1 even though they are short range weapons. Also the place I play at has always told me that they do suffer from the over half distance modifier.
 
Thanks, folks. I thought it did too but two guys, one of whom I was playing against said otherwise so I went ahead and took the shots without the penalty. I'll try and convince him later. Why? I dunno, it's fair, innit?
 
skinker said:
Lets say a unit of 10, low armor is charging. I know I can't wipe them out, but there's a decent chance I'll get at least 3 wounds. If its on a flank (where I plan to run the skinks, odds are they aren't benefiting from general's leadership which would mean they have around 7 leadership. I have a little less than 50% chance of causing them to turn and flee the next turn, and I can then shoot them in the ass for another 3 wounds on my turn. Wouldn't this potential be worth the possible sacrifice of a 70 point unit?
Click to expand...

They rally on LD 6 as they can't take musicians. There is a 68% chance of passing a coldblooded LD6 test. Skinks don't to well on the flanks tho, especially if they're unsupported. Most opponents deploy their fast units on their flanks and without the fear of getting counter charged your skinks will quickly be run down. 1 unit on the flank together with something else (like a CoC, a steg or kroxigors) can do very well but you want them in position where you can redirect enemys in a favourable position if they decide to charge you.

Stand and shoot to cause panic tests is a long shot, but it can of course be worth it. If that charging unit is very important to the opponent, or is worth A LOT of VPs then go for it. The problem is -1 for stand and shoot, -1 for double shoot and most of the time -1 for long range means you are forced to choose single shot, which rarely does more than 2 wounds anyway, especially against troops with any type of armor, and after that he should have a 58% (on LD 7) or better to pass. Keep in mind that the opponent also get a free persue / overrun after they beat you, which mean instead of a 4-8" fail charge they get a 8-16" charge + an avarage of 7-11" overrun, do you really want a rank breaking infantry unit 15" into your battle line?
 
erians said:
Stand and shoot to cause panic tests is a long shot, but it can of course be worth it. If that charging unit is very important to the opponent, or is worth A LOT of VPs then go for it. The problem is -1 for stand and shoot, -1 for double shoot and most of the time -1 for long range means you are forced to choose single shot, which rarely does more than 2 wounds anyway
Click to expand...

i was under the impression you didnt get the -1 for long range when standing and shooting?

eitherways, i know i always go for the death-or-glory stand+shoot, even when the chances of decent casualties/failed panic is slim. whenever i decide to suck it up and flee, i seem to roll 2-3" and get the enemy exactly where i didnt want them anyway!

totally worth it though for that one time where you get a bunch of 6s and thier whole unit drops :)
 
Yes you take both penalties, long range and stand and shoot...

So my initial excitement over this unit has now diminished as it seems highly improbable that they will ever get to use 2 shots each.

If I have to move up to get within 12 inches, then I'm already taking -2 because odds are I'm in long range and I've moved. Shooting double shots will cause me to be at -3 which is not at all smart.

If I declare a stand and shoot I'm also taking -2 because of long range and charge reaction. Again, I can only get one shot off each.

So I guess my question still remains... How do you effectively use these units as offense? Or should they be used as screens and redirects mostly?
 
well 6's auto hit... they still get armor/regen/ward saves...

Basicly they are our effective shooting units.
unfortunately they work best with 6" of a target
and they haven't moved.

so the idea is to have them sneak up on the flanks.
if you want them for shooting, don't forget that woods and water
are usualy your skinks best friends (except against wood elves).
try to shoot at units from the woods edge if you can, that way if
you get charged by non-skirmishers just flee and the unit the charged
gets stuck in the woods for a couple of turns.
 
n810 said:
well 6's auto hit... they still gat armor/regen/ward saves...
Click to expand...
Of course they still get an armor save. You do against most wounds. Check the rules, it is an auto wound. Or, I can sum it up here for you:
You roll an unmodified 6 to hit.
That die does not have to be rolled again to see if you wound. It is an auto wound.
Target gets to take saves as per normal rules vs. wounds.

You roll a 5 against the modifications to hit and you hit.
Now you have to roll to wound.
If you do not wound you are done.
If you do wound then target takes saves as per normal rules vs. wounds.
 
actually kinks often get to double shoot, excluding the obvious large targets where you have an effecive 18" range on blowpipes, you have a 12" range for most units. it may seem a lot in turn 1 or 2, but by turn 3 and onwards your skinks will probably will allways be moving and shooting.
i took out chaos warriors, blood knights and other heavly armored targets by jsut spamming poison at them untill they fail those 2+ saves. they rules against monsters as my 20 skinks have taken out about 3 hydras by now, sometimes with the help of terradons or magic to make the process faster. not many enemies will charge your skinks, preffering not to be redirected and going for something worth more victory points, my skinks also survived charges by 5 chaos warhounds or marauder horsemen due to stand and shoot where only 1-2 models made it in contact and with a low armor save skinks actually stand a chance to kill something back and with the bonus from outnumber they can, on rare ocasions, break the enemy.

mostly skink skirmishers are used to take out large targets at wich they excell, especially giants who have no save, but even monsters that only regenerate suffer from skink fire. if you can see a large targets kill it with skinks, if not, got for low armor units wich also fail to sruvive lots of poison, if there is nothing within range/on the table just spam the heavyest unit you can safely shoot at and make your opponenet roll a lot of dice, he is bound to fail at least 1 armor save from enough poison shots. thats what i do at least and it works out in most cases for me
 
Thanks for this response. Very helpful. How would these fare against, say, a high elf sun dragon?
 
Not sure how much the dragon cost,
But I imagine 300pts worth of Skinks could kill 300pts worth of dragon.

:beaver:
 
Bibamus said:
actually kinks often get to double shoot, excluding the obvious large targets where you have an effecive 18" range on blowpipes, you have a 12" range for most units.
Click to expand...

Where did you get the 18" from? Do you always get extra range on large targets or something? (Still pretty new to the game and still learning new rules...)
 
large targets add +1 to hit so it ginores the range or movement or multiple shots.
 
But blowpipes are a 12" weapon, doesn't that mean that within 6-12 you get that +1 to hit for large weapons negating the long range, but after 12" you just can't shoot?
 
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