7th Ed. Skink Skirmishers and Shooting

[Flint13]

Ok, after a good few games trying out both mixed skrox units and skirmishing skinks, I keep coming back to the ranked cohorts. I really want to like the skirmishers, and blowguns look really effective on paper, much more so than javelins... but i keep getting burned every time I use them. The problem I have is that with anything more than a single negative to balistic skill (ie, moving+shooting, long range, multiple shots) the poison of the blowguns is made useless, as things requiring a 6 to hit don't benefit from autowounding on 6's. Skinks with a BS of 3 are looking at 6's to hit on a good day, as they fire 2 shots and are probably at long range and have moved last turn, if not both. If they aren't shooting at a large creature, I'm not seeing the advantage of the skirmishers over the ranked unit. The ranked unit can redirect charges 90% as effectively as the skirmishers, and are alot more solid with krox to back them up, and a full rank bonus with the most common size of 16 and 2. Please tell me that I'm missing something somewhere or i'm totally using my skinks wrong, because I really want to love skirmishing skinks, especially because the blowguns seem like they should be way more awesome than they keep turning out to be.

 

[Caeldan]

The advantage of using skirmish units (I've been playing 1250 or less games, and running anywhere from 2-4 units of skinks (skirmishers + one camo unit)... is manouevring behind your enemies blocks and picking them off from there.

A skirmish unit can move between 6-12" a turn in whatever direction you like with no worries of wheeling about or clipping a forest and losing half your movement distance, etc. And the full unit is able to shoot as opposed to just the front of the unit.

With skink skirmishers, you roll on 6's so long as you only have 2 modifiers - movement, long range, or multishot (shooting at another skirmishing unit should be a last target selection only)... so the key is to get yourself within 6" of the enemy - but out of his line of sight. Then you can multishot and double your damage output... and he likely won't be able to do a thing about it. If he turns to face you, you just move back out of his LOS again.... or charge your infantry into his now exposed flank. Just use single shots until you're in a position to multishot on 6's (you have the choice if you want to multi or single shot - you don't always have to use 2x shots and take that penalty)

Basically think like a boxer with skinks, 'float like a butterfly, sting like a bee'

 

[skinker]

At 70 points for a unit of 10 its truly a bargain that cannot be passed up. They are great for taking down high toughness monsters, baiting and fleeing, or even just screening your more expensive units and keeping them from taking damage until they make it into battle. Skink Skirmishers are a great unit that you shouldn't leave home without.

 

[Aranigej]

the poison of the blowguns is made useless, as things requiring a 6 to hit don't benefit from autowounding on 6's

Where did you get this from? The rule is that shots which require MORE than 6 to hit do not benefit from poison (unless I am grossly mistaken)

 

[Caeldan]

the poison of the blowguns is made useless, as things requiring a 6 to hit don't benefit from autowounding on 6's

Where did you get this from? The rule is that shots which require MORE than 6 to hit do not benefit from poison (unless I am grossly mistaken)

Yeah... if you need 7+ to hit, you don't poison.
If you're shooting on a 6, and roll a 6 - they're rolling their armor save (if applicable) against a wound.

It's stated very clearly in the big rulebook, pg95 'a warrior with poisoned attacks will wound his target automatically if he scores a 6 to hit ... if the poisoned attack needs a 7+ to hit, the rule has no effect'.

 

[n810]

If you moved, are at long range use single shot instead of double,
so you can still get poison.

 

[Iggy Koopa]

So just to make sure...

If you move, are at long range, and doing double shots your poison won't work, correct? That's how I've been playing it and believe that's right...

Iggy Koopa

 

[Aranigej]

Yep that's right. Though in that case you should not use multiple shots and go for single shots instead, which will automatically wound on a 6

 

[Flint13]

Oh, ok, that was my mistake! I thought that any shooting that would require a 6 to hit wouldn't benefit from poison, not just a 7+. Thanks for clearing that up for me! I'm starting to see the benefit for flanking now though. Staying out of line of sight is the key, as the skirmishing skinks can be a few inches away, but as long as they are on a flank or the rear, they can't be charged, so they're more or less safe.

Thanks guys!

 

[Skrox]

While skirmishers are great at what they do, there is a place for cohorts. If you are just setting up a screen you know will be shot to pieces or using them to redirect a charge then I say cohorts are better, because they are cheaper.

If you ever want to try and hold a unit in place while it gets flanked skirmishers haven't got an armor save, but the cohorts have a 5+ in close combat (I know saurus are better for this). This being said I can't see setting up a big block with standard for the static combat resolution, because you will probably still lose.

If you are just looking for disposable troops save 20 points and go with the cohort. I plan to take some of each.

 

[strewart]

While skirmishers are great at what they do, there is a place for cohorts. If you are just setting up a screen you know will be shot to pieces or using them to redirect a charge then I say cohorts are better, because they are cheaper.

I'd prefer the skirmishers in both cases... Shot to pieces? Well good luck with -1 to hit them. Redirect charges? Skirmishers are easier to lineup at the correct angle you want them since you don't need to manouvre.

The advantage I find for cohorts is they will negate ranks if they hit a flank or rear, so they are a lot more dangerous in that regard. Skirmishers really will be useless against anything in combat.

 

[Arli]

I have yet to use any ranked skinks (with or without krox). I absolutely love my skirmishers. I love the double tap with poison. They can also be useful in tying up somthing you do not want to move (at the cost of the unit).

 

[Caeldan]

While skirmishers are great at what they do, there is a place for cohorts. If you are just setting up a screen you know will be shot to pieces or using them to redirect a charge then I say cohorts are better, because they are cheaper.

I'd prefer the skirmishers in both cases... Shot to pieces? Well good luck with -1 to hit them. Redirect charges? Skirmishers are easier to lineup at the correct angle you want them since you don't need to manouvre.

The advantage I find for cohorts is they will negate ranks if they hit a flank or rear, so they are a lot more dangerous in that regard. Skirmishers really will be useless against anything in combat.

The only thing is, skirmishers line up to the charging unit - so it's mostly dependent on how well you can force your opponent to have to turn early in the charge, as they can otherwise use the free wheel at the line of battle to force the direction you're lining up against them at and potentially forcing your skinks to flee back through your own units that you were screening.

 

[Caneghem]

"The only thing is, skirmishers line up to the charging unit - so it's mostly dependent on how well you can force your opponent to have to turn early in the charge, as they can otherwise use the free wheel at the line of battle to force the direction you're lining up against them at and potentially forcing your skinks to flee back through your own units that you were screening."

The strength of skirmishers as redirectors is when fleeing as a charge reaction. True enough they are not ideal for taking the charge and changing the overrun path of the charger... since the charger can make "tactical wheeling" maneuvers to control his charge direction.

 

[Skrox]

The strength of skirmishers as redirectors is when fleeing as a charge reaction. True enough they are not ideal for taking the charge and changing the overrun path of the charger... since the charger can make "tactical wheeling" maneuvers to control his charge direction.

I am fairly new and learning the game, but I don't see how a skirmisher unit fleeing a charge reaction is any better than the ranked skinks fleeing the charge reaction. If there is a difference I would love to know.

 

[Caneghem]

The strength of skirmishers as redirectors is when fleeing as a charge reaction. True enough they are not ideal for taking the charge and changing the overrun path of the charger... since the charger can make "tactical wheeling" maneuvers to control his charge direction.

I am fairly new and learning the game, but I don't see how a skirmisher unit fleeing a charge reaction is any better than the ranked skinks fleeing the charge reaction. If there is a difference I would love to know.

The enemy has to try to charge the closest skirmisher in line of sight, so when you flee with skirmishers, you move that single model away from the center of the charging unit to determine which direction you flee. So depending on how you place that one model you can determine their pursuit path. It is also easier to get into good position to bait a charge with skirmishers, since they don't have to wheel or turn, and can just slip in where needed. Now if your intent is to allow the enemy to charge into combat and then overrun/pursue, ranked skinks are better.

 

[strewart]

Beaten to it by Caneghem... Oh well, this post might prove useful anyway.

As per the Tactics FAQ Index thread, have a look here and here for explanations with diagrams.

The best way I can describe it in words is if you elect to flee as a skirmishing unit, the direction of your flee and thus the direction the failed charger moves is in a straight line from the exact centre of their unit to the centre of the closest skirmishing model.

So if you are spread across the front of a unit, and carefully make sure the closest skink to them is at a 45 degree angle, then that is the direction they will turn to chase you. In a failed charge you also know exactly how far they are going to move so you can setup for a flank very easily. Why would they make the charge? Sure a lot of people might not, but the skinks are preventing them from marching to get away, blocking their charge to other targets, and if they hang around they are going to get a sh!t load of non-moving, close range poisoned blow pipe shots going their way, and isn't life beautiful.

 

[Xlcontiqu]

IMO, ranked skinks > skirmishing skinks.

Before I get ripped to shreds, let me explain. Perhaps ranked skinks only fit my playstyle better, but I would always take them over skirmishers.

I love skirmisher for their ability to double tap and take down large monsters, and yes, their redirecting ability can come in very handy a lot, but the diverting that ranked skinks can do outweighs them in my opinion. I want to expose flanks to my units, so diverting works perfectly. Ranked units cannot get by my ranked skinks and thus must expose their flanks to my units. I always find with skirmishing skinks, if a unit is coming right at you, exposing their flanks is harder at least. The extra save allows them to be a little more resilient to shooting and in combat, so they can serve a variety of purposes and cost less. Maybe I am not a very good redirecter, but in all my games so far, my ranked skinks have far outweighed by skirmishing ones.

 

[Etsiketsi]

Let's not forget that a skirmish screen also acts primarily as just that: a screen. Since most of my games, LM & other armies on occasion, tend to involve moving forward to engage in hand to hand, I can't thnk of anything more indispensable than a wall to keep my R&F units safe from missile and spell damage.

I've seen some players deploy giant skink skirnish screens as a box around their army, blocking off flank attacks, scouts etc. Whenever they needed to charge, they just rearrange part of the screen, and off they go. The only trick is to keep enough skinks alive to make sure the screen doesn't collapse, and a couple of priests with Celestial Shield seemed to work pretty well.

Though my fellow skinks would disagree, cannon fodder is at the same time never wasted and always wasted, depending on how you look at it

As for the shooting...unless we're flanking, you're unlikely to outshoot anything, in terms of distance, with a blowpipe or javelin. So I see it as, if you do manage to shoot and kill things with skinks, it's an added bonus.