7th Ed. Skink question

[Medicdave]

I am starting to lean towards using skinks in "detachment" blocks like in the Empire. I have been using the skirmishing skinks and am unhappy. I want to put a block of 10 skinks around 1 kroxigors. This gives me a 4x4 block that causes fear, breaks ranks, and gives str 6 attacks. All this for 105 points/unit. I would put them on the flanks or between the 2 saurus blocks on the outside of the central Slann/TG unit.

 

[strewart]

So what exactly is the question? You have determined that you quite like the look of a cheap and hard hitting unit. Just remember the skinks are very fragile and will lose you some valuable combat res by dying. But it is a cheap unit.

 

[Caneghem]

I am starting to lean towards using skinks in "detachment" blocks like in the Empire. I have been using the skirmishing skinks and am unhappy. I want to put a block of 10 skinks around 1 kroxigors. This gives me a 4x4 block that causes fear, breaks ranks, and gives str 6 attacks. All this for 105 points/unit. I would put them on the flanks or between the 2 saurus blocks on the outside of the central Slann/TG unit.

I thought about that, but just imagine.. for one extra skink, you could run the unit 5x3. Might as well take a couple ranks, you never know. Send them after weaker targets and they have a decent shot of breaking them. Your enemies will just see a 3 rank unit and be scared to expose their flank to them.

 

[DonkeyHotep]

Plus, wouldn't you need 12 skinks to make a 4x4 block?

And wouldn't that be super dumb since you need to be 5 wide to get ranks?

and wouldn't that unit cause fear? Unfortunately for people that aren't empire, "detachments" don't counter charge or support charge, and unless something is unbreakable or stubborn on 3 dice with re-roll I wouldn't ever knowingly put a unit in a battle that involves losing, meaning that you can only support by having your opponent WAY outmaneuvered.

Just use the skinks to screen and die when they charge the spear saurus, accept the tactical loss and let them overrun into the saurus, or not, and get charged, their choice really. Then have the skinks help out.

If you really want an effective plan, ignore those skink blocks and do what every empire player seems to think is most effective, (though not fluffy or cool looking) I.E.having swordsmen backup more swordsmen and have saurus backing up... MORE SAURUS! Seriously, deploy yourself an inch or two apart and on the same front line and you'll hit the enemy in the flank if they are touching you, and have a fair shot at it even if they restrain in front of you. It also means that they can't get anything to YOUR flank, because you are one inch away from... MORE SAURUS! Where have I seen this tactic before, where a shitload of buff guys with spears and big shields form a giant wall and roll out, oh yeah, the PHALANX! It worked then, it works now.

Math Hammer.

11 skinks + krox = same price as 10 saurus (no spears)

10 saurus cause.... 4.629 skink wounds

The 'uvver boyz cause... .2778 from skinks... and 1.041667 from the krox. Wow, a crushing defeat for the skinks, even with ranks and outnumber, even getting the charge isn't gonna help much.

What about against empire?

Swordsmen vs Saurus
2.222 kills for the saurus
.37037 kills for the swordsmen
(swordsmen narrowly win if they have similar points costs I.E. 3 ranks)

Swordsmen vs Skinks
.625 skink kills, 1.25 krox kills
1.4848 swordsmen kills
(swordsmen narrowly lose if they have similar points costs, I.E. 3 ranks)

Dwarves (warriors, HW SH) vs Saurus
1.25 kills for the saurus
.37037 kills for the Dwarves
(saurus narrowly win if they have similar points costs I.E. 2 ranks)


Dwarves (warriors, HW SH) vs Skinks
.278 kills for the skinks, 1.0416 from the Krox (1.31 total)
1.111 kills for the Dwarves
(skinks win if they have similar points costs I.E. 2 ranks)

Against many targets with good armor saves the skinks and krox are going to perform well in stand up fights, and they are certainly great flankers against cavalry or the like, but against saurus they would perform quite badly, and much of their wins are only by virtue of greater ranks in these cases, when people can field full units, they'll lose pretty bad, and for flanking, the saurus tend to get better CR on their own, (and have higher LD should the flank fail)

 

[Youngblood]

I certainly can't argue with DonkeyHotep's math (curse you mathematics and your always being right) I would like to point out two things that the Skink + Kroxi unit has over the Saurus unit.

1) M6 > M4 Gives the Skinks a tad more diversity and lets them do other stuff, just in case.
2) The Kroxigor causes fear and gives this to the unit, effectively making it immune to fear from other units. Admittedly, LD8 with cold blooded shouldn't be failing too often, but when it does it always seems to be at the worst possible moment. Bypassing that is always nice.

So while Saurus, when in the flank, are probably a better bet, the Skinks are more likely to get to the flank, or do other stuff for that matter.

That all being said, I'd rather just have 2 units of 10 Skinks for the same price.

 

[Gannon]

I'm not 100% sure about the krox giving imune to fear to the unit...
Maybe you wouldn't have to pass a ld test when you charge a fearcausing enemy..
But when you get outnumbered by fearcausing enemies.. (Krox US3) I don't think the 1 Krox will make the entire skink unit imune to the fear. You would still get an insane Courage..
(when you lose CR, which happens alot when you use skinks)
Otherwise the Krox/Skink unit is OP.

 

[DonkeyHotep]

Nahh, your safe. If the krox is there outnumber fear is irrelevant.

I agree that 10 skinks is real great! Love that unit, and cheaper then one krox! Just look at your opponent and says, "Kill 5 skinks and this flank was dumb! I still outnumber!"

If your using the Saurus wall it doesn't matter about move speed since you'll only be charging to your opponents flank and that'll prolly be about 2 inches away (you get a free wheel when you contact, just gotta tap em)

The most important use for skinks is as road blocks and flee bait.

 

[Youngblood]

The most important use for skinks is as road blocks and flee bait.

And holding table corners. Pay 50 points, get 100. Good deal.

 

[DonkeyHotep]

Jungle swarms can hold table quarters cheaper.

 

[strewart]

Hmm I didn't think swarms could hold table quarters though..

 

[Caneghem]

Swarm bases have a Unit Strength of 3. Refer to p71 of the BRB and see the chart. This means that you need two swarm bases together as a unit to contest a table quarter, so the 10 skink unit is our cheapest option for the landgrab in end game.