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8th Ed. Skink confusion

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Tim-rek

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I see a lot on the forums about skink skirmishers with jav and shield and am a little confused. As a new Lizardman player (after 15+ years of Empire) i can't see the benefit of javs over blowpipes. I'm sure there is one otherwise so many people wouldn't recommend the extra spend, i'm just missing it. Do you HAVE to multi-shot with blowpipes? If so that's the only thing I can see how javs beat bps...
 
Quick to fire and longer range. I find it useful on my Skrox units to be pumping out a few extra shots a turn.

I guess your never really out to do loads of damage with Javelins but they are an added bonus to those unit of 10 co-hort blockers who can stand and shoot even 1 inch away from an enemy you are trying to re-direct.
 
I agree, not worth upgrading the skirmishers to have jav and shield. Stick with blowpipes on them.

Jav and shield are ok in cohort units though, the 6+ parry in combat helps.
 
Okkam's Mindrazor lets you get S6 javelins that hit on a 4+, that's pretty good.
Other than that, maybe because WYSIWYG-ruling that the upgrade is needed.

Blowpipes are better on skirmishers, easier=better in this case.

The Hunted
 
I think it depends on how you play the skirmishers. I generally opt for the javelins and shields because I want to be able to stand and shoot at any range. The 6+ parry save does not help much, but it can make a difference. My play style generally leaves me within 6 inches of my target unit, so I benefit from the stand and shoot as well as getting off a shot at close range.
 
Okkam's Mindrazor lets you get S6 javelins
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I wish, sadly Mindrazor only works for close combat attacks. :(
 
I think the main reason why so many (me included) uses javelins over blowpipes is that if you have blowpipes, most often you will have -3 to hit (moving, multiple shot and long range) and thus will hit on 7+. that means that poison wont work.

If you have javelins and do the same thing (moving and shooting at long range) you will hit on 5+ (remember quick to fire rules). 10 shots hitting on 5+ WITH poison is always better than 20 shots hitting on 7+ without poison.

It is true that if you manage to get close enough to the enemy so that you either dont need to move, or can shoot at less than 6" range blowpipes will do more damage, but that is a quite rare occurrence. Skinks will run back and forth most of the time, and it can be hard to get close enough to remove the long range penalty. Add to this that the javelins allow you to always stand and shoot (even if enemy charges from 1" away) AND that they get that little extra save (parry is very nice) I (and very many players with me) will gladly pay 30 points to upgrade all of my skinks to javeliners.

Chameleon skinks have BS4 and scout, so THEY on the other hand can really use that blowpipe (not that they can use javelins, but you get the point ;))
 
You know multishoot is optional, if you are facing 3 shooting penalites, drop down to single shot so you can still hit on 6's.
 
Lord Tsunami said:
I think the main reason why so many (me included) uses javelins over blowpipes is that if you have blowpipes, most often you will have -3 to hit (moving, multiple shot and long range) and thus will hit on 7+. that means that poison wont work.

If you have javelins and do the same thing (moving and shooting at long range) you will hit on 5+ (remember quick to fire rules). 10 shots hitting on 5+ WITH poison is always better than 20 shots hitting on 7+ without poison.

Chameleon skinks have BS4 and scout, so THEY on the other hand can really use that blowpipe (not that they can use javelins, but you get the point ;))
Click to expand...


Exactly!! That is what I do.

n810 said:
You know multishoot is optional, if you are facing 3 shooting penalites, drop down to single shot so you can still hit on 6's.
Click to expand...

I agree to a point, but I would rather have quick to shoot javelins with a slight chance (6+) of survivability. And I use my chameleons for my blowpipe shots.
 
n810 said:
You know multishoot is optional, if you are facing 3 shooting penalites, drop down to single shot so you can still hit on 6's.
Click to expand...

Agree with this. Its about potential output. If you have blowpipes, and move and have long range, then you single shot and have the same effectiveness as javelins. If you get into half range (I do a fair bit) then your blowpipes become twice as good as the javelins.

I am discounting the fact that javelins can sometimes hit on 5's, however, 10 javelins hitting on 5's is not as good as 20 blowpipes hitting on 6's, and only marginally better than 10 blowpipes hitting on 6's.
 
So run a large unit of skinks with blowpipes? is that skirmishers or normal skinks? im still noobie at the units :)
 
n810 said:
Okkam's Mindrazor lets you get S6 javelins
Click to expand...

I wish, sadly Mindrazor only works for close combat attacks. :(
Click to expand...

Yeah, we played it as shooting too until recently. Pity the rulebook is specific on CC only. It's still fun to put Okkams on there and watch somebody go "meh skinks.... HOW STRONG?"
 
Raein said:
So run a large unit of skinks with blowpipes? is that skirmishers or normal skinks? im still noobie at the units :)
Click to expand...

Javs on cohort units, blowpipes on skirmishers. The other motivation for that is you don't spend extra points on what is a cheap throwaway unit anyway.

As to unit size, really depends on what you want the unit to do. I am a fan of keeping unit size of skirmishers down to make them more manageable. And a decent sized cohort unit is cool with a couple of krox. But again, depends on what you want them to do.
 
I settled it by making 10 of each, so now I'm forced to take both :D
 
i think i'm going to go with two units of 12 skirmishers witha brave.
 
No point taking a brave? why? are they waste of points?
 
Completely waste of points.. costs twice as much and only 1BS better.. you can take another skink instead of a brave :)
 
yeah i didn't tak the braves, i just left them out and went for 2 lots of 12 skirmishers.
 
I settled it by making 10 of each, so now I'm forced to take both :D
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this is ofc always an option. as i said, blowpipes are better if you dont have to move (or fire at long range), but with 1 unit of each you could use one as a more mobile strikeforce and redirectors (the javelins) and the other as a more normal shooting unit (the blowpipes)

Usually a 2-2,5k army includes 2-3 units of normal skinks, hence it wont really make a huge difference since you are making a slight adjustment to the performance of 10% of your army. Its not like its "use javelins or die!", but more like "i use my skinks in such a way that javelins fits better". with 1 unit of each type, you can easily go around the issue :P
 
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