8th Ed. Skaven and temple guards

[archangelvk]

I just played a game against Skaven 2.5k and Ive noticed a few things. First off my opponent had a warp cannon and destroyed my bastiladon in turn one. He rolled S8 for the power of the cannon and did 5 wounds on the d6 wounds.

Then he went around with two hellpit's and basically destroyed all my units. I was able to shoot one down with skinks till it had one wound left but once that moster got into cc, it raped me... HARD. EVen with HoG (which did basically nothing) my temple guards dropped like flies.

I generally take 21 temple guards and ive noticed that EVERY game they drop like flies. Whether they fight High elves, Skaven or Orcs and goblins. Im starting to think I need to take crown of command on my slann so once all my guards die I can at least hold my own ?

 

[Moniker]

I've had a rough time with my temple guard as well - just the other day a Hellpit slammed into their flank and killed over a dozen in the first round...

Honestly, I'm not sure what to do with them either. I wouldn't worry about the crown on your Slann however. If he's in Close Combat alone, he's probably not going to do so well whether or not he's stubborn or no.

 

[Bon ban]

It seems to me that your problems are Hell-pits and cannons.
If you're worried about large monsters then take a death slann or take high magic and dabble in death. Spirit leach should kill a hell-pit pretty easily (although I'm not sure what its leadership is).
Fly terradons or ripperdactyls at the cannon and try and use chaff units/terrain to hide your monsters.

 

[twistedmagpie]

Well, I am originally a Skaven player and out of all the units in the entire book my 2 best models are my Abom and Cannon. I never play a game without them.

In all honesty, they are both very scary; everyone in my club fears the Abom, in fact it's the only thing they target until it's gone (Sometimes thats not enough - I've had him come back 3 times in 1 game).

And the cannon is by far my most damaging item, in 1 game, absolutely everything went wrong - 1's all over the place (6's for characteristic tests). The only thing that pulled it's weight was the cannon - we had 4 turns; Turn 1 = destroyed bolt thrower, Turn 2 = second destroyed bolt thrower, Turn 3 = dead mage, Turn 4 = second dead mage.

As Moniker said magic is the Lizardman's best defence against them. Otherwise I'd use Terradons vs cannons, only because Skaven tend to have huge battle lines and it'd be more difficult to get chameleon skinks round the flank. For the Abom, think fire - remember it wont get it's regens or Too Horrible to Die rules if it's hit with flaming attacks.

Hope this helps

 

[Wallice]

Abombs are scary, especially 2 of them. Skinks are the best way to take them down, or wyssan'ed saurus. I would also strongly suggest (if you run High Magic) to get either Shem's Burning Gaze or Fireball to help deal with them.

He can't run more than 1 cannon if he runs 2 abombs in 2500 pt games, however they can be plenty scary on their own. Chameleon Skinks are great, haven't tried Terradons yet.

Although I would also try out carnosaurs versus skaven. Yes, cannons eat carnosaurs and abombs are initiative 4 to the carnosaur's 2. However, if the carnosaur goes first he will eat abombs, and with the bastiladon and HoG it might be possible. I just really want the carnosaur to be useful...

 

[archangelvk]

That is exactly what I faced. One Skaven cannon and 2 abominations. I found that my chameleon skinks to be ineffective because his battle line was congested that I couldnt get near his cannon. MY Terradons also found if difficult to fly close to his cannon without being charged themselves. In one turn the abomination rolled a 16 for his 3D6 auto hits S6 attacks and destroyed 13 of my temple guards who had HoG and wassays buff on them. That left me with 7 left. On the 2nd turn of fighting I clearly got obliterated.


When playing other armies I find that Temple guards have the same problem of falling to enemy units too swiftly. I cant always rely on magic since winds of magic can really screw with you when you need it the most.

Im wanting to try a saurus warrior only for my fighting units but im not sure if that'll work.

 

[Padre]

Your opponent got lucky. Just on averages, you should have taken about 7 wounds on your temple guard from that HPA attack and he only gets it off 1/3rd of the time. As was said previously, probably your best options are magic or shooting. Fire a fireball at it, hope you roll a six to wound, then blast it with Amber Spear or one of the lightning spells from heavens. Skink shooting should take a few wounds off of it before you fight it in Close Combat. Finally Wyssaned and HoG Temple Guard should take do well against one in close combat. If you know you are going in to face Skaven, try and find the points to put Banner of Eternal Flame on them. If you go simultaneous or first, it won't survive more than two rounds of combat against them. (Remember that you hit on threes and wound on fours, better if you have wyssans up.)

Padre

 

[Moniker]

Oh! Just remembered something.

Terradon's with Fire Bolas working in concert with blowpipes of some sort. Hit the Abom with the Terradon's first to get rid of Regen, then pepper that bugger with as much poisoned shooting as you can. That's after blasting it with the Bastiladon and other magic missiles.

 

[Dreadgrass]

The Blasterdons bound spell could be good against an Abom also, 2D6 S5/6 flaming hits should make it a bit easier to handle. I think the trick to taking them down in the magic phase is going to be redundancy. 1 boundspell/fireball/etc. can be dispelled, whereas with say 2 bounds + a fireball or Shems or the like something should get through.

With Aboms and Chimeras being so popular, some form on anti-regen strategy seems pretty essential in the current meta.

 

[Stonecutter]

Here are a few ideas that may help:

1) HPA - Take the eternal flame banner for the slaan and park him in the TG with a large unit of skrox right next door (3 krox & ~30 skinks). When the HPA gets close (i.e. within ~15"), the skrox reform to maximize shooting, get in range and the slaan joins them. The skink BS can be boosted with HoG (or alternatively everything is boosted so skink initiative is higher than HPA) and possibly even a wyssans if there has been time. Skirmishers then move around to provide extra fire power. The skrox shoot first and even without HoG, they should get off 20+ poisoned, flaming shots that yield 3-4 wounds. The other shooters then finish it off. If the HPA charges the skrox, it will damage them but the unit will finish it off and live. Repeat with the 2nd HPA.

2) HPA v 2 - Bake & shake combo. Sallies now have S4 hits so there is ~56% (5/9) chance that two template hits will cause a wound on an HPA. Once the first flaming wound is done, massed skink shooting can hopefully finish it off. Definitely sub-optimal but it provides a 2nd approach that can be used while the Slaan is otherwise occupied.

3) WLC - skink chief on ripper/terradon with charm shield should be able to take it out on turn 2 since he vanguards. Only problem is if the skaven player brings the stormbanner since no flying is allowed while it is active. A skink chief with the cloak of feathers works nearly as well and also gets a look out, sir roll while in/near a unit. No matter what happens though, be prepared to suffer through 2-3 rounds of WLC fire. Effectively, this means your big monsters are likely to die before they do anything since they have no regen and the WLC doesn't allow armour saves.

4) Magic - change out for fireball at the first opportunity. With 3 variants and up to a 48" range, it will hurt anything and everything in the skaven army, especially the HPA. A 2nd wyssans to back up the priest is also useful since wyssans on javelin skinks makes their shooting S4 poison!!

5) Tactics: Be prepared to sacrifice a couple units to delay &/or redirect one HPA while you deal with the other. Better a few skinks die for the greater good than TG and who knows, they might get lucky and inflict a wound or two on the HPA before they die. Keep in mind that HPA are subject to psychology and thus killing a nearby unit forces a panic check. Although the HPA is LD 8, you just might get lucky and have it flee. For the WLC, buildings and mystical terrain block the shot so you can hide your monsters behind these if available.

 

[Lizardmatt]

Try MSU.
2x priest (cube and scroll, both with heavens)
3x chief on ripperdactyls
6x12 saurus
4x10 skinks
3x12 temple guard
2x3 ripper dactlys
2x2 salamanders
1 razordon

~2500 points.

Too many targets for the skaven to deal with. Try and magic an abomb dead via lore of heavens, and just run the fighting blocks into combat. Rippers blot out the skies killing machines and weapon teams.
Salamanders pose huge threats with S4 temples. Razor is a rat pack killer (ie, charge him!).

-Matt

 

[Cheeto]

Opps just noticed most people are posted this stuff. First for the TG I enjoy running large blocks, I'm currently using a big block of 30 which seems to be holding it's own.

For dealing with HPAs
Throw a flaming banner on your TG, if you do wound it won't get it's save.
Terradons with flaming bolas shoot first just need to cause one wound, than pew pew with skirmishers.
Bastildon although you did say it was knocked out turn 1 which sucks. Bound spell 3 for potential hurty flaming hit.
HM has a few fire damage spells you can throw out as well, and switch for fire ball if you prefer.

Dealing with Cannons
Terradons or rippers as other have said
You could try my new fav tactic, ancient steg with blow pipes, walk between the world, and pew pew pew. Only really works if there is enough of a gap for your stegy to fit through
Chamo skinks, though most players keep the deployment tight so you will have to try and congo line them through.
Try hiding your big monsters behind terrain for the first turn or two till you deal with the cannons.

Hope this helps.

 

[rantapanda]

Notice.. Flaming attacks only thwart the regeneration rule for one phase, not the entire turn.
Say you wound the thing with magic.. It can still regen from poisoned javelins..

Sucks huh